Excerpt: Paragon paths (merged)

[AllisterH]

First thing Im going to do with the paragon paths when I get the PHB is see how "unbalancing" it would be to eliminate the "class" requirement. Don't see why say a warlock wouldn't want Arcane Riposte etc.

 

[Ulthwithian]

I think the best hint as to the number of PPs that exist in the PHB would be the Stormwarden and the Doomsayer (and perhaps others). Both require a specific 'build option' (TWF for Ranger, Star Pact for Warlock). To have a PP for some builds and not others seem rather heartless for WotC to do, and thus you can set a minimum number at:

4+3+2+2+2+2+2+2=19 (Warlocks have 4 options; Wizards 3; I assume the others have two)

There are two issues with this number. First, the Warlock gets more Paths than everyone else. Second, _every_ build option has only one PP that is optimized for it, and thus the choice inherent in PPs becomes in actuality no choice at all. Therefore, you could expand the number of choices to 4 per class. This would eliminate the first issue, and mitigate in large degree the second issue (Warlock would still 'suffer' from it).

I hope they chose this route.

 

[Charwoman Gene]

Races & Classes specifically said

That this is information almost a year out of date. Races and classes is a nice art and fluff book. It's also an old design diary. It's not good on specifics.

 

[Pinotage]

That's correct - but there is no downside to having a paragon path, unlike a Prestige Class. You still gain ALL of the powers that you would do without it, rather than substituting them.

So, in other words, you get shoehorned into a concept unless you buy the splat books that might containt the concept you're after? I can't believe that you can't progress as a single class only.

Pinotage

 

[Voss]

I have this terrible fear that this is multi-classing in 4e.

Me too. Coupled with class training feats, I suspect thats the whole package.



On another note, the Doomshaper is reinforcing certain images in my head.
"In the name of the Zero Star, Saggitarrius, I, Sailor Galaxia, will punish you!"

Yep, I can't shake the feeling that the warlock (and the cleric, and bits of the wizard) can feel like Sailor Moon style magical girls. I don't necessarily feel bad about this, because I'm a disturbed individual, but I can totally see a party of 2 warlocks, 2 clerics and a wizard focused on ray attacks spinning around, posing and shouting out attack names. Maybe with a 'Tuxedo Moron' paladin mascot.

 

[Plane Sailing]

So, in other words, you get shoehorned into a concept unless you buy the splat books that might containt the concept you're after? I can't believe that you can't progress as a single class only.

I imagine that it will be possible to great a generic Paragon Path (perhaps called simply "Paragon") which instead of giving paragon-specific abilities gives a slightly broader range of class abilities by extending the pattern of heroic ability gains into the paragon levels.

Of course, the 'multiclassing' alternative to paragon paths might be fine for providing additional character concepts too (since presumably with 8 classes each of which could multiclass with one of 7 other classes, that would provide for an additional 49 character concepts).

Cheers

 

[Pinotage]

I imagine that it will be possible to great a generic Paragon Path (perhaps called simply "Paragon") which instead of giving paragon-specific abilities gives a slightly broader range of class abilities by extending the pattern of heroic ability gains into the paragon levels.

Of course, the 'multiclassing' alternative to paragon paths might be fine for providing additional character concepts too (since presumably with 8 classes each of which could multiclass with one of 7 other classes, that would provide for an additional 49 character concepts).

Cheers

I hope there's an answer. I'd be disappointed if you were forced to make a paragon path choice or even if your fighter had to take ranger or warlord abilities in the paragon tier because there was no other way to do it.

Pinotage

 

[AllisterH]

Me too. Coupled with class training feats, I suspect thats the whole package.



On another note, the Doomshaper is reinforcing certain images in my head.
"In the name of the Zero Star, Saggitarrius, I, Sailor Galaxia, will punish you!"

Yep, I can't shake the feeling that the warlock (and the cleric, and bits of the wizard) can feel like Sailor Moon style magical girls. I don't necessarily feel bad about this, because I'm a disturbed individual, but I can totally see a party of 2 warlocks, 2 clerics and a wizard focused on ray attacks spinning around, posing and shouting out attack names. Maybe with a 'Tuxedo Moron' paladin mascot.

*LOL*

Don't feel too bad. I was thinking the same thing...

Still wondering *WHY* the added restriction of specific class for the Requirements. Definitely going to be going over that with a fine tooth comb to see how broken it gets if I allow any class to take said path.

 

[Lizard]

Having trouble parsing this:
"Warpriest’s Challenge (16th level): When you hit an enemy with an at-will melee attack, you can choose to mark that enemy for the rest of the encounter. The next time that enemy shifts or attacks a creature other than you, you can make an opportunity attack against that enemy. If you mark a new enemy with this feature, any previous marks you have made with this feature end."

How does "the rest of the encounter" fit with "the next time"? Does the mark go away once it's been triggered once, but lasts until then? Also, are opportunity attacks explicitly melee? 'Cause if you can make them ranged, and it does last the whole encounter, the warpriest just became the ultimate sniper.

(Mark, run, then shoot every time the poor thing shifts...)

I assume I'm misreading this.

 

[Domon]

Yep, I can't shake the feeling that the warlock (and the cleric, and bits of the wizard) can feel like Sailor Moon style magical girls. I don't necessarily feel bad about this, because I'm a disturbed individual, but I can totally see a party of 2 warlocks, 2 clerics and a wizard focused on ray attacks spinning around, posing and shouting out attack names. Maybe with a 'Tuxedo Moron' paladin mascot.

you, sir, should never, ever, get to play eXalted.