Excerpt: skill challenges

[hong]

Why are ppl getting so hung up over Intimidate?

It's just an example. It's showing the parameters for designing a skill challenge, and one of these parameters is that the DM can rule out any skills they consider to be not useful for the situation. In this particular case, such a skill is Intimidate.

The key point is that you, the DM, are empowered by the rules to say that skill X is inapplicable for challenge Y, for whatever values of X and Y you deem appropriate. Quite possibly, you might never say that a skill is inapplicable. It isn't that this specific skill, Intimidate, can't be used to bully barons around or whatever.

 

[Frostmarrow]

hong - the voice of reason.

 

[Mirtek]

easy+highest mod is not always the optimal choice (as in it does not always give you the highest chance of winning the entire challenge). That depends on the number of success/failures needed, the number you currently have and your actual skill mod alternatives. You might have a better chance to win the entire challenge by choosing a hard check with a somewhat lower skill, or by doing a moderate check.

If I either need 1 hard, 2 moderate or 6 easy rolls to make it, I would still select the 6 easy rolls.

Take also into consideration that the next guy to roll might not be you, but the player next to you who has other skill modifications (and ideas).

I was under the impression that anyone choses for himself. If all have to live by the same choice, it's even more important to always select easy so that someone untrained can still make it. If the rogue choses a moderate stealth check, it may already be too much for the paladin who is untrained in stealth and wearing heavy armor.

When there is a tactic that is better than the others, but which one it is isn't obvious to you, the game gets interesting. Remove a proper tactical choice and the game gets less interesting. To me at least.

To me it's always: The easier and the less risk the better it is

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

So far, the system comes close to what I have expected. More samples would be better, but that's what the actual DMG is for...

hong - the voice of reason.

OMG, where have we come to! The Sky is Falling!

 

[hong]

Sorry.

 

[hcm]

If I either need 1 hard, 2 moderate or 6 easy rolls to make it, I would still select the 6 easy rolls.

That is a suboptimal choice .

I was under the impression that anyone choses for himself. If all have to live by the same choice, it's even more important to always select easy so that someone untrained can still make it. If the rogue choses a moderate stealth check, it may already be too much for the paladin who is untrained in stealth and wearing heavy armor.

Yes, everyone choses for himself. That is why it might sometimes be a good idea to try and give the next guy a bonus by choosing a hard check yourself (I'm not sure it works that way, but I think it should).

To me it's always: The easier and the less risk the better it is

Well, then you should maybe try to figure out which tactics is optimal in order to win the entire challenge, not just a single roll?

After reading the excerpt, I'm just afraid that you won't have the opportunity to make an interesting choice.

 

[Ipissimus]

I like it. As hong said, I think people are overreacting to the example given as 'the be all and end all' of skill challenges. Obviously, you'll create skill challenges that suit your group and, as always, the DM is there to filter to a group's taste. Remember, WOTC has to cater for all play styles and there are a great many players who are just plain uncomfortable acting out their characters at the table. Do they deserve to be penalized because of that? No, the game's meant to be fun for everyone involved.

On the subject of intimidate, though, we know very little detail about the situation but the guy IS a Duke. Someone mentioned before that Dukes are supported by whole armies. I'll go one setp further. As a Duke, the one thing we do know about him is that he has the moral, political and maybe even divine mandate to wield the power of life and death over his lands and everything in it of a lesser rank than he. How does a small group of scruffy, rootless, vagabonds (ie adventurers) intimidate someone used to wielding that kind of power as a matter of course? Granted, your PCs may be gentry themselves, but the likelihood of that's rather slim. Heck, as far as the Duke's concerned, the PCs are probably obliged to follow his orders.

Now, I can also see an opportunity here. Imagine that previously, the PCs won another challenge (skill, combat or whatever) so exceedingly well that it was revealed to them that someone involved was the Duke's illegitimate son/daughter as the 'treasure' they receive, opening up the possibility of intimidating the Duke by holding his secret over his head.

I think the system has eormous potential.

 

[Derren]

Better than expected but not perfect.

I am still concerned that with this systems the player will "roll for successes" instead of "rolling for a goal"(meaning that players will simply roll their best skill because that will solve the challenge instead of really trying to get closer to their goal in game).

And how should the PCs be able to know when a new skill can be rolled because of a previous success like with the history check here, especially as I see no reason why you can't start the negotiation with "We are honored to meet the savior of whatevertown" without previous successful diplomacy check. I also wonder how this system will ensure that everyone will get something to do. In this situation everyone with low Cha and who isn't trained in social skills will keep his mouth shut and let the negotiator talk.

Edit:
Another thing I wonder about is if it will be discussed how the use of powers affect skill challenges, like using charm person (if that power exists in 4E) or in a Escape from Sembia like challenge a Eladrin simply Feystepping away instead of fleeing from the guards with a skill. Does that count as success or not? And what happens when the power allows the character to reach the goal of the challenge before the required number of successes are accumulated like a wizard casting invisibility and simply walking out of Sembia?

 

[Ozdec]

I like how if you allow all the skills it becomes - "Oh I just pick my best skill all the time regardless" - ergo Skill Challenge system is Bad

and if you say a particular skill cannot ever work for this situation (may even be negative) then you are being railroaded and ergo Skill challenge system bad.

 

[Lurks-no-More]

hong - the voice of reason.

It's particularly amusing, considering all the doomsaying about people being able to use any skill, any time, anywhere, to achieve anything. Now, when we get shown that the DM can perfectly well rule that some skills aren't going to help in the challenge, people are screaming about that.