Excerpt: Swarms

[keterys]

So, its attacks are high, its defenses are high, and its damage is way high. Add on swarm-ness, and it's just really badass.

I think I'd suggest changing its damage to 1d6 + 2 and 2d6 + 2, and it would probably then be a decently tough soldier. It won't instantly kill people, but it will definitely chew people up and cause problems and more than 1 will do plenty.

 

[keterys]

But it takes half damage from most attacks. Its "effective" hit points are therefore much higher than the raw number would indicate.

Again, I'll want to test it myself before I say for sure what I think, but if it's as tough as people are suggesting, I'd have no problem calling it elite.

I like blue. Red is not blue, but purple is close, so I will call purple blue.

You can use the stats as is and give double XP if you want, but that doesn't make it elite.

P.S. Compare this to a kobold dragonshield, they're both level 2 soldiers, right? Also, we do have stats for a rat swarm (I don't have them on me, but someone else probably does), if we want another swarm to compare balance against. I don't remember reacting violently when I saw that.

 

[Celebrim]

But it takes half damage from most attacks. Its "effective" hit points are therefore much higher than the raw number would indicate.

Oh I agree, but this isn't the same thing as having double hit points. This just shows that anything that gives wide resistance to attacks to the creature effectively makes it as tough as an elite without upping the hit points. This shows you have to be very careful with abilities that give resistance to common attack forms.

Likewise, it 'burst' ability to attack all adjacent creatures as a free action is the sort of attack ability normally reserved for solo monsters. The swarm attack ability screws up 4e's highly critical action economy. This shows you have to be careful not to give abilities to normal non-solo monsters that effectively grant extra actions.

On top of that, its a medium sized monster that uses damage dice appropriate to a large sized monster, and it has ability scores for a quite uber level 2 soldier.

I have no problem saying that its worth twice the XP that it is, but that's not the same as saying its an 'elite'.

 

[Knight Otu]

See if you can spot the common ground that I think are shared by both MtG cards and the new stat blocks, other than that they both are produced by WotC. Hint: it's not that they come in randomized packs.

They are designed as exceptions to the rule, with some guidelines. And there are a number of discrete points that they can inhabit (mana cost and type versus level and role). That point provides guidance to how it should look like, with some variance. And that variance can become a problem, if it is taken too far (Needlefang Drakes). Other breaking points can be synergies (3.x Half-Dragon Troll), or poorly-tested designs (Tarmogoyf).

Am I close?

 

[Celebrim]

Am I close?

Give that man a cigar.

 

[Family]

Mike looked to be writing very tongue-in-cheek throughout the article.

But whose cheek?

Anwser me or I'll unleash a swarm of minature giant space badgers on you.

Or perhaps a swarm of invisible gnomes.

 

[keterys]

I'm a swarm. Rawrawrawrawrawrawrawrawrawrawrawrawr!

 

[Boarstorm]

After the TPK vs 4 drake swarms, I ran the same group (Kathra, Corrin, Erais, Skamos, Riardon) against 3 drake swarms. It took a couple daily abilities (from Kathra and Skamos), and 3 action points, but they managed to defeat the 3 drake swarms. Corrin was also out of all his daily healing. A total of 6 healing surges were used during combat (3 triggered by Corrin, 2 by Eraise, and 1 by Kathra). After the combat, everyone except Skamos would need 2-3 surges to heal up to fullish HP's again.

I don't think the party could face another similar encounter after this, and survive again. So even 3 swarms seems like more than a 500 XP encounter.

Can't help but wonder if there's something missing from the preview.

Well... you're running the encounter in a 10' corridor, for one. That's just about going to guarantee overlapping aura effects and other craziness.

 

[keterys]

Of course, it also makes it much easier to hit multiple swarms at once. Upsides and downsides...

 

[Celebrim]

Well... you're running the encounter in a 10' corridor, for one. That's just about going to guarantee overlapping aura effects and other craziness.

It's probably worse in a 15' wide hall because then you can triple team along the centerline should any PC be stupid enough to get in the middle. But of course, flanking with the swarms is going to be hugely effective regardless of the width of the corridor and its easy for them to get in a flanking position just by pushing right through an opponent's space. I think that trading oppurtunity attacks is a win situation for the swarms.

But that is all beside the point.

A 15' wide hall (say 60' long) is not unusual terrain. It's not like the corridor itself grants XP the way a trap or hazard might. The fact that the encounter takes place in 'typical' dungeon terrain doesn't cause a new DM to suddenly have a eureka moment and say that the encounter is of a higher level, nor does putting in open terrain make the monsters more reasonable for thier level.

I mean the real test would be 5 level 2 PCs vs. 5 needlefang drake swarms, right? That's supposed to be a fairly reutine encounter which doesn't drain the party of much more than a single healing surge per party member. Consider how often the sample modules have thrown much higher than party level fights at the PCs that they are expected to win. I'm not at all convinced that 5 level 2 PCs can take 5 needlefang drake swarms on a regular basis.