Excerpts: PHB2 - Heric Tier Feats

[andarilhor]

If that lists all the heroic feats in PHBII, I am missing a lot of feats presented into the classes previews:
Primal Instinct
Primal Fury
Insightful Preservation
Invoker Defense
Advantage of Cunning
Shared Healing Spirit
Stalker Spirit Adept
Arcane Spellfury
Crushing Earthstrength
Wildbood Cunning

 

[Nymrohd]

PHB2 uses additional tables for class feats

 

[Shadeydm]

Stackable +3 init isn't that bad really. You'll rarely stack higher than +7 ATM.

Since Improved init and Quick Draw do not stack this would represent more power creep imo.

 

[I'm A Banana]

Weapon/Implement Expertise?

Why hello Robot of Accidental Suck! I haven't seen you in about a year! A picnic with you sounds like a great idea, but make sure you pack the exact right food, or it'll suck once we get out there!

...Oh, who'm I kidding! It'll suck, accidentally!

(cue laugh track, lighthearted theme music...fade into opening credits).

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Weapon/Implement Expertise?

Why hello Robot of Accidental Suck! I haven't seen you in about a year! A picnic with you sounds like a great idea, but make sure you pack the exact right food, or it'll suck once we get out there!

...Oh, who'm I kidding! It'll suck, accidentally!

(cue laugh track, lighthearted theme music...fade into opening credits).

Thog not get reference

 

[I'm A Banana]

Thog not get reference

Oh, I'm just borderline insane.

Accidental suck is what happens when your character ends up not being as good as you want it to be, because of some obscure or crazy rule that causes you to not be as effective at challenging the baddies you face at higher levels. It was very rampant in 3e (spellcaster multiclassing, for instance), but 4e had gone the extra mile to help make sure it didn't happen.

Weapon/Implement expertise, because of the whole "I keep missing more often!" problem mentioned above, re-introduces a level of accidental suck to 4e.

And that robot was just a random image to characterize Accidental Suck as saying hello to us 4e players. He's been away, and now he's back!

Everything else is just my borderline insanity...

gslgslgslNO! Not here.

 

[jasin]

hey guys. Are you missing how awesome Melee training is.

My Cha based halfelf pally will be happy when I get to play her.
*dumps Dex*

I'm not seeing how you get very much from Melee Training, unless you find yourself making an inordinate amount of opportunity attacks or or charges.

 

[Shroomy]

What I find most interesting about the expertise feats are the unusual rates of progression (+2 at 15th, +3 at 25th). Still, I'm not sure if my character will end up taking it; I don't have any real problems with hitting targets, and neither does the fighter or ranger in my party. Now, our warlock, he's affected by self-inflicted MAD; he would really benefit from the implement expertise feat.

 

[Jack99]

I'm not seeing how you get very much from Melee Training, unless you find yourself making an inordinate amount of opportunity attacks or or charges.

It allows a paladin to go full CHA, and still be able to hit on a charge and an OA - both being rather useful for a defender.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Oh, I'm just borderline insane.

Accidental suck is what happens when your character ends up not being as good as you want it to be, because of some obscure or crazy rule that causes you to not be as effective at challenging the baddies you face at higher levels. It was very rampant in 3e (spellcaster multiclassing, for instance), but 4e had gone the extra mile to help make sure it didn't happen.

Weapon/Implement expertise, because of the whole "I keep missing more often!" problem mentioned above, re-introduces a level of accidental suck to 4e.

And that robot was just a random image to characterize Accidental Suck as saying hello to us 4e players. He's been away, and now he's back!

Everything else is just my borderline insanity...

gslgslgslNO! Not here.

I understand "accidental suck", but I didn't understand the robot (and to be honest, I still don't). But that's okay, if you're a little insane. Nobody is perfect.

What I find most interesting about the expertise feats are the unusual rates of progression (+2 at 15th, +3 at 25th). Still, I'm not sure if my character will end up taking it; I don't have any real problems with hitting targets, and neither does the fighter or ranger in my party. Now, our warlock, he's affected by self-inflicted MAD; he would really benefit from the implement expertise feat.

The rate of the progression probably fits the area of levels where the monster/PC discrepancy in bonuses become most noticeable. At 11th and 21th level, people get extra ability points, so there is a good chance your attack already goes up. Around level 15 and 25, not much is happening.

I wouldn't be surprised if many characters will wait for paragon or epic tier (e.g. level 15 or level 25) till they get the feat. At Heroic Tier, there might still be a lot of other feats you might want to have. (Multiclass Feats, Skill Training, Ritual Caster and may racial feats). I still wouldn't be surprised if they turn into must-haves for most characters, but you can probably afford it.


I doubt that the designers did "miss" the 4-5 points of difference at epic levels between PCs and NPCs. They either believed that the powers and paragon/epic features would balance this out, and found it didn't, or this feats were planned for the beginning, but they delayed them to PHB 2. I don't like that, to be honest. I think it's okay to not have the Adventures Vault Masterwork armors in the PHB - you still cover most levels - but these feats effect are not hinted at in the PHB I.

Nobody "Gummibärchen helfen auch" Ridcully