D&D 5E Expertise Dice and Multi-Classing

[Grimmjow]

I know Multi-classing hasn't been released yet but i feel like we should talk about how expertise dice should work with multi-classing. The main thing im wondering about is if the rogue keep the expertise how will it work when a rogue and a fighter are multi-class together.

There for if you play a rogue to level 5 and multi-class into fight for 5 more levels, should you have 3d10 expertise die and be able to use them for both fighter and rogue maneuvers? Or should they have the level 5 rogue dice (is it 2d8?) and the level 5 fighter dice (is that 2d8 also?) and have to keep track of the dice separately, using only the fighter die for the fighter maneuvers and only the rogue die for the rogue maneuvers?

I honestly dont know which way i think it should be. If you separate the dice from each other than its more to keep track of (but thats kinda what multi-classing is about) and if you add them together you have a lot of dice to use (3d10) but im not sure that will make you over powered.

 

[GX.Sigma]

I think your expertise dice pool should be one big bucket, and you can use them for anything that takes expertise dice.

Though... that does cause problems when a Fighter 10 who takes a single level of Rogue suddenly has a skill check of 1d20 + [highest 1 of (3d10 + 1d4)]. Hmm.

 

[Grimmjow]

I think your expertise dice pool should be one big bucket, and you can use them for anything that takes expertise dice.

Though... that does cause problems when a Fighter 10 who takes a single level of Rogue suddenly has a skill check of 1d20 + [highest 1 of (3d10 + 1d4)]. Hmm.

that does cause problems but i recall somewhere hearing that cherry picking won;t work as well as it did in three e or something.

But now i ask you. Should he have 3d10 +1d4 expertise dice? or should the one level in rogue give him the level 11 set of dice? In other words, should the expertise dice be a separate section so that you gain them depending on what level class total you have that gain expertise dice?






I suppose from a RP perspective that expertise dice should be gained and used separately from each other.

 

[GX.Sigma]

that does cause problems but i recall somewhere hearing that cherry picking won;t work as well as it did in three e or something.

But now i ask you. Should he have 3d10 +1d4 expertise dice? or should the one level in rogue give him the level 11 set of dice? In other words, should the expertise dice be a separate section so that you gain them depending on what level class total you have that gain expertise dice?

Yeah, that is a good question. I think the important thing to keep in mind is that, if you only have 1 level of Rogue, you should be only as good at Roguish stuff as a 1st-level Rogue. So if he can use all of his giant Fighter dice for Rogue skills, that doesn't work.

So maybe the answer is to keep them separate. :\

 

[Grimmjow]

Yeah, that is a good question. I think the important thing to keep in mind is that, if you only have 1 level of Rogue, you should be only as good at Roguish stuff as a 1st-level Rogue. So if he can use all of his giant Fighter dice for Rogue skills, that doesn't work.

So maybe the answer is to keep them separate. :\

like i said it may be better from an RP point of view also. Mechanically a level ten fighter could use use his fighter dice one rogue skillz but that would unbalance it. (vise versa) From an role playing point of view the 3d10 from the fighter class is things he gained in order to use his fighter powers. the 1d4 would be how much he gained from his rogue level.

Here's a new idea. Some of the fighter maneuvers are on the rogue list as well. Perhaps the 3d10 should only be able to be used on fighter powers and the 1d4 only on rogue and both the 3d10 and the 1d4 used on powers that are shared by both the fighter and the rogue? seems to make sense (RP) and be somewhat balanced (mechanical)

 

[Obryn]

I am hoping multiclassing is not strictly additive. Thankfully, I don't see any way it can be right now. Forget about expertise dice - look at the attack bonuses. Those will obviously not stack.

-O

 

[Jeff Carlsen]

Expertise dice and spell slots fill a similar role--they represent the level of access the class has to its abilities. Both should be handled in the same manner.

Traditionally, if you multiclassed cleric and wizard, spell slots were tracked separately. But, perhaps expertise dice and spell slots should be generic, though with a few stipulations placed upon multiclassing to keep the proper flavor.

Balance isn't a big problem. Maneuvers are all theoretically equal. The same mostly holds true for spell slots. So long as 5th level wizard spells are balanced with 5th level cleric spells, it doesn't matter which type of spell is prepared in a given slot.

At this point, there are three concerns:

First, the cleric and the wizard have slightly different spellcasting mechanisms. The multiclassing rules would have to address this so that the Cleric/Wizard could expend a spell slot containing a wizard spell in order to cast a prepared cleric spell, but not the other way around.

Second, the rate of advancement when learning a new class needs to be considered. A Fighter 5/Rogue 1 should not be as good a rogue as they are a fighter, but still needs to be a level six character.

Perhaps the number of expertise dice or spell slots for the new class starts low, but ramps up quickly over a couple levels. So a Fighter 5/Rogue 1 can use 6 levels of expertise dice for fighter maneuvers, but only one die for rogue abilities. A Fighter 5/Rogue 3 would have complete access to all of the dice for both classes.

Third, there needs to be a strong incentive to stay in one class. For this, every class should have mid and high level class features that a cross-class character is delayed in getting or never gets. Even better if these features augment spells and maneuvers related to that class. That way a cleric 3/wizard 3 is still a sixth level spellcaster, but will never be as good a wizard as a 6th level wizard.

 

[ren1999]

We've got to start with a concept of multiclassing. This is what I'm thinking.
The game has 4 types of characters.
The fighter character invests in his strength and as a result, gets the highest hit dice, the heaviest armor, and the biggest weapons doing the most damage.
The wizard character invests in her intelligence and as a result, gets the lowest hit dice, the lightest armor, cloth, and the smallest weapons doing the least damage. But her area spells attack more opponents and do more damage than the fighter's weapons.
The cleric is like a multiclass character investing in strength and intelligence equally. So the cleric should get medium armor and the spell-prayers should do more than weapon damage but less than wizard spell damage. All character classes that are are both martial and spell casting should be similar to the cleric class.
Expertise dice should be all the same? Because a fighter will use it for maneuvers. A wizard for spell maneuvers, and a cleric can divide the expertise dice for both.