Expertise in combat expertise?

[shilsen]

The limits to power attack and combat expertise, while similarly worded, do not combine. A 20th level fighter with power attack, combat expertise and improved combat expertise could use 20 points of power attack and 10 points of combat expertise for +40 damage with a two handed weapon and +10 AC with a -30 attack penalty.

Combat Expertise caps at 5 pts.

I've house-ruled the same cap on Power Attack in my game and that's worked very well. Definitely saved the PCs a number of times.

 

[Bad Paper]

I am stunned, really stunned by this news. There's a little bit of the shifty-eyed demon in me right now who can't wait to do this with my barbarian, but there's also the immense pity for my players (in the campaign that I run). What to do?

 

[KarinsDad]

Opps. Patlin's post preempts mine.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Combat Expertise caps at 5 pts.

He's got Improved Combat Expertise, as well.

 

[frankthedm]

Power Attack, what I like to call the swinging for the fences technique.

If you are using combat expertise for a lot, you are probably only going to hit on a 20, if not close to a 20. So go ahead and use full power attack along with it. Then if you roll a 20 and hit, you still do a ton of damage.

And it is what i call "Why i insist on fumbles on natural 1's."

 

[brendan candries]

Just use the optional rule: natural 1 = -10 to attack (no auto miss); natural 20 = 30 to attack (no auto hit).

 

[shilsen]

He's got Improved Combat Expertise, as well.

Ah, I missed that. Thanks.

 

[Bad Paper]

Just use the optional rule: natural 1 = -10 to attack (no auto miss); natural 20 = 30 to attack (no auto hit).

I do this as well. Mooks not even hitting on a natural 20 is funny.

So is there a good reason that Combat Expertise caps at 5 but Power Attack doesn't? What if you removed CE's cap? Or capped PA (as Shilsen) and introduced the Improved Power Attack feat?

 

[KarinsDad]

So is there a good reason that Combat Expertise caps at 5 but Power Attack doesn't?

The reasoning is that WotC typically wants to limit defenses over offenses.

For example, to hit tends to climb faster than AC in the game. If Combat Expertise did not have a cap, a high level Fighter fighting defensively could hold a doorway for 20 rounds, regardless of his opponent doing full round attacks.

Power Attack, on the other hand, is self limiting as an offensive tactic. If you put too much into it, secondary attacks will miss and you will actually average less damage overall. So, there is no need to put a cap on it.

 

[Patlin]

That design decision makes sense. Combats are really boring with round after round after round of both sides missing.