Expertise: When Can You Use It?

[Clefton Twain]

So What About Haste?

Alright, just thought of a way around it--haste.

It allows for an extra partial action...so you can THEN take the attack action and use Expertise at this point...no?

Granted, it's a spell letting you do this but, hey, haste is already immensely useful.

--CT

 

[Caliban]

Re: So What About Haste?

Alright, just thought of a way around it--haste.

It allows for an extra partial action...so you can THEN take the attack action and use Expertise at this point...no?

Granted, it's a spell letting you do this but, hey, haste is already immensely useful.

--CT

Yup, that works. I have a PC who plans on using this tactic eventually.

 

[kreynolds]

A weapon of speed will do the same thing. Cool, huh?

 

[Caliban]

A weapon of speed will do the same thing. Cool, huh?

No, because a weapon of speed doesn't give you an extra action. It gives an extra attack.

 

[kreynolds]

Oh, come on! The attack is the action! The extra attack doesn't rely on any other action for you to use it. You can use it whenever you want. It is a completely independent action. In fact, it is the exact same thing as the extra action from haste, but you can only attack.

 

[Jairami]

I disagree. I think the extra partial action from haste is much better than the rebound swing of a weapon of speed. With the extra partial action you can move, cast, partial charge, or attack once. The weapon of speed only allows a replay attack once per round with the swung weapon.

One is a partial action that can be allotted to being an attack action, the other is merely one more itinerative attack, albeit at full attack bonus.

 

[kreynolds]

From the Speed enhancement description:

The weapon does not grant the benefits of a haste spell, so an additional partial action is not what is granted, simply an extra single attack with this weapon.

OK. I can see that. I shall relent.

 

[Caliban]

Oh, come on! The attack is the action! The extra attack doesn't rely on any other action for you to use it. You can use it whenever you want. It is a completely independent action. In fact, it is the exact same thing as the extra action from haste, but you can only attack.

No, it is not the same thing. You can use the Attack Action to make a single attack, but an attack by itself does not constitute an "Attack Action".

An Attack of Opportunity is not an action, since by definition you can only take actions on your turn. It's an attack that takes place outside of your normal turn sequence.

The Expert Tactician feat was errata'd from allowing an extra partial action to allowing a single melee attack.

By the rules, being able to make a single extra attack is different from using a partial action to perform an Attack Action and make a single attack.

If it was equivalent to an action action, you could use it to take a 5' step, or perform a free action in addition to the attack.

 

[melkoriii]

Oh, come on! The attack is the action! The extra attack doesn't rely on any other action for you to use it. You can use it whenever you want. It is a completely independent action. In fact, it is the exact same thing as the extra action from haste, but you can only attack.

You can only use the "speed" attack in a Full attack or Normal attack action. So you have to declare Expertise when you declare your action.

 

[kreynolds]

Too slow on the draw Caliban. I already got it. Thanks though.