D&D General Explain Bounded Accuracy to Me (As if I Was Five)

[tetrasodium]

Huh? Sorry, I'm not seeing your point on this comment. Could you clarify? Thanks!

Your quibble about vancian prep ignored the prevalence of scrolls in old editions but ignored how slots were prepared in 2e & how common scrolls were. Spell scrolls were about as common in old editions as AOL CDs were back when blockbuster video had more than one appointment only store. In actual play the concern for using a scroll was usually more "should I consume the scroll for this" and a spell could be prepped with 10 minutes of rest & study or prayer per spell level while the fighter types had a very real chance of recovering some of their HP.

 

[ezo]

Your quibble about vancian prep ignored the prevalence of scrolls in old editions but ignored how slots were prepared in 2e & how common scrolls were. Spell scrolls were about as common in old editions as AOL CDs were back when blockbuster video had more than one appointment only store. In actual play the concern for using a scroll was usually more "should I consume the scroll for this" and a spell could be prepped with 10 minutes of rest & study or prayer per spell level while the fighter types had a very real chance of recovering some of their HP.

Yes, scrolls as "consumable" items (like potions) were more common than other magic items.

I don't recall precisely the difference in spell prep and healing from 1E to 2E, but I know in 1E recoverying spell slots, or even "exchanging" unspent slots, required 4 hours (minimum) rest and 15 minutes per spell level for the spell. Of course, fighters (as well as everyone else), required 24 hours of rest to recover 1 hit point... Unless you got in a full week or more.

Spell scroll use IME was more about "I don't have that spell memorized (i.e. "prepped"), so I'll cast it from the scroll I have."

EDIT: ok, found the 2E reference, which is 10 minutes (not 15) per spell level, but you still need a full night's rest. You can't just decide to swap out a memorized spell on a whim.

 

[Minigiant]

D&D is a game about adventuring.

Progression is, when you boil it right down, purely optional. The rules just tell you how it works if-when you use it, and assume that you will.

Progression is the main reward for adventure. Most of the rules pertain to character progression and testing it.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Progression is the main reward for adventure. Most of the rules pertain to character progression and testing it.

I always thought loot and power were the main rewards for adventure. Or the joy of being heroic, if you're into that.

 

[Minigiant]

I always thought loot and power were the main rewards for adventure. Or the joy of being heroic, if you're into that.

Loot and power is progression.

There are 5 editions of D&D and at least a dozen major D&D-likes. None o the official editions are slow or flat in progression in every PC metric. And I can't think of any D&D cone that is as well.

You can have a "flatter curve". The issue is I don't think a D&D style game that is flat or smooth everywhere sells.

Some stat always increases rapidly as the enticement for leveling and wathing the PC grow.

 

[Thomas Shey]

Loot and power is progression.

There are 5 editions of D&D and at least a dozen major D&D-likes. None o the official editions are slow or flat in progression in every PC metric. And I can't think of any D&D cone that is as well.

OD&D could be pretty ruddy slow.

 

[Minigiant]

OD&D could be pretty ruddy slow.

The increases per levels is moderately high.

Fighting men got +7 to hit and +6 to (ALL) saves over 10 levels. Better than 3e, 4e, AND 5e. You hit an ogre on a 6 or better before magic.

 

[Thomas Shey]

The increases per levels is moderately high.

Fighting men got +7 to hit and +6 to (ALL) saves over 10 levels. Better than 3e, 4e, AND 5e. You hit an ogre on a 6 or better before magic.

Yes, but how long it took to level was not quick. If you were looking for that nice zing of advancement it could take some time. Almost all modern incarnations are much faster.

 

[Maxperson]

Gaining +10 base to hit in 10 levels isn't a little. Going from 25% accuracy to 75% is a lot.

Not really.

10th level monsters according to 1e. Assuming a +3 weapon and a 17 strength.

Demon Princes: -5 to -8 AC - That fighter would need a 14-17 or higher to hit. That's a 20%-35% chance of hitting.
Arch Devils: -2 to -7 - which equates to a 25%-50% chance to hit.
Iron Golem: AC 3 - This one is actually 75%!
Lich: AC 0 - 60%.
Elder Titan: AC -3 - 45%.
Vampire: AC 1: 65%.

So only one has a 75% accuracy rate and it drops as low as 20% accuracy.

Even AD&D Priest and Rogue accuracy increases faster than 5e.

So what. It still isn't "ballooning." The cleric is looking at a 65% accuracy(for the golem) down to 10%. And the thief is 55% down all the way to 0%(can't remember if a 20 always hits in 1e). That's hardly intense accuracy.

As for the casters, I thought I didn't have to remind the original "raiding increasing number": spell slots.

I'm not sure what that means, but mid to high level spells were pretty easy to interrupt.

Edit: I also give both the cleric and the rogue a 17 strength like the fighter, but that almost never happened since the high stat was put into wisdom for clerics and dexterity for thieves. Also, I gave the PCs magic items, but neglected to give the monsters any and almost all of those listed would have and use them, so there is a good chance those ACs would be even lower, further reducing accuracy.

 

[Minigiant]

Yes, but how long it took to level was not quick. If you were looking for that nice zing of advancement it could take some time. Almost all modern incarnations are much faster.

Not really.

10th level monsters according to 1e. Assuming a +3 weapon and a 17 strength.

Demon Princes: -5 to -8 AC - That fighter would need a 14-17 or higher to hit. That's a 20%-35% chance of hitting.
Arch Devils: -2 to -7 - which equates to a 25%-50% chance to hit.
Iron Golem: AC 3 - This one is actually 75%!
Lich: AC 0 - 60%.
Elder Titan: AC -3 - 45%.
Vampire: AC 1: 65%.

So only one has a 75% accuracy rate and it drops as low as 20% accuracy.

I think you are boh missing what the conversation is about.

This is a discussion about making orcs and ogres into interesting threats to mid level parties
WHILE
making prgression interesting
WHILE
not increasing the PCs stats greatly
WHILE
not having orcs and ogres not having different stat blocks for different level PCs.


And my response is "It is impossible". You MUST compromise on something.