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D&D 5E Exploration Rules You'd Like To See

Quickleaf

Legend
I like it, but what would it look like? Gimmie an example!

I'll answer that challenge! ;)

This is from a conversion of Dragon Mountain that I am slowly working on (IOW it's incomplete). Like [MENTION=52734]Stormonu[/MENTION] I thought the basic premise of skill challenges needs work but is very useful for exploration. Also, like [MENTION=6690511]GX.Sigma[/MENTION] I wanted to incorporate the passage of time and wandering encounters.

exploringdragonmountain.jpg


Whatcha think?
 

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I'm A Banana

Potassium-Rich
So...I'm gonna get all hyper-analytical on those SC's for a minute. Don't take this the wrong way, I basically agree that the core concept of SC's is solid, but these examples give me a chance to say why SC's alone don't work to address my concerns:

[sblock=Stormonu]
Stormonu said:
An example might be sneaking past the Night Watch.

So, a few things jump out at me there.

The first is that there's no real tactical thought involved. Pick a skill, run with it, see what happens. Any skill could work for any reason. You even have Character 2 effectively "stealthed for free," since he chose to roll other checks instead. This boils down mechanically to a problem of repetition: "I roll a skill check....I roll a skill check....I roll a skill check." Sure, you've got interesting fluff padding it out, but that fluff doesn't have any real bearing on the mechanics.

The second is that adding some sort of turn or initiative cycle seems to impose a narrative on the scene fairly well. That's a good idea that I think is adaptable: exploration should use defined units of time. Maybe bring back the old 1e "turn." ;)

The third is that there's little room for believable error, here. If the guy fails to stealth, or fails to climb, or fails to charm the guards, the challenge remains static, since they aren't "out of the challenge" yet, but they also haven't succeeded. I can't have the guards just notice the first character on a failed check, because the party hasn't failed the SC yet. I can't have the guy who fails an Athletics check fall off the wall and sustain damage, since the SC is still going on (and anyway the damage wouldn't likely matter).

The fourth is, even if they fail entirely...then what? Do they just wait the next night to try again? Do they just get a "bonus fight" with the guards?

The fifth is that they aren't using their class abilities to do anything, here. There's no distinction between the characters aside from the skills they are using (and even those are mostly about how the DM fluffs it). I can't be a sneaky thief that gets in the tower in my own special way, I just roll Stealth, which is also what the Warlock and the Ranger do. Or I roll Bluff, which is also what the Warlock and the Bard do.
[/sblock]

[sblock=Quickleaf]
Quickleaf said:
This is from a conversion of Dragon Mountain that I am slowly working on (IOW it's incomplete)

First, I notice that there's degrees of success, which is cool. That's something that SC's could use more of, it helps give it that sense of time passing that I noted above as a good thing.

Second, I notice that there's no "real" penalty for failure. The worst that could happen is that the party gets into a fight, which isn't much of a penalty, especially given 4e's high survival rate. The penalties for failing a check just encourage the party to rest more often, and there's nothing preventing them from resting after every check if they want to play it safe. I'm not sure what the Kobold Threat Rating is, so that may address this point.

I like the use of random tables, and linking them to making a check, but I also think that this would take me about 2-4 months of actual gameplay to make it into the "deep level" like that, using 4e style combats. I also notice that this doesn't allow for skipping encounters or using any tactics to avoid them.

I'm also noticing that the "passageways" and (to a lesser degree) the "traps" don't do much if you're not in a fight when you "encounter" them. There's nothing inherently interesting beyond fights here.

It also shares some of the problems with Stornomu's SC in that it doesn't use class abilities, it doesn't involve strategic thinking, and it generally just involves choosing whatever skills make sense and using them over and over again until you have what you want.
[/sblock]

A far sight better than most SC's I've seen, but still....too fluffy, too fighty, too vaporous, not crunchy, not engaging, not solid and tangible. Steps in the right direction, but we need moar.
 

Stormonu

Legend
This was spmething I was experimenting with for my 3E game:

Climbing Challenges Climbing challenges can range from an ascent up the steep, open–sided staircase up a cliff to a tower or other structure at the top, or a dizzying climb up crumbling rock faces – or up a steep cliff into the sights of creatures hurling ranged attacks down at the party in an attempt to dissuade ascent. Like other skill challenges, each individual makes their own set of skill checks to determine if the ascent is succeeded or not. Failure usually indicates a fall of a considerable distance or other harm. Because of the danger of falls, Aid Another actions and lending skill points to other climbers to assist them up is often a wise idea.

Steep staircase up cliff (50 ft. high) CR 1 Skill Challenge DC 14; 6 Acrobatics (Balance) checks;Failure: Slide down stairs for 1d6 damage; Success: Reach top of stairs unharmed at ½ normal movement rate; Superior Result (4 skill successes): Reach top of stairs unharmed at normal movement rate; Perfect Result (6 successes): Reach top of stairs unharmed at double movement rate.

Trap–laden staircase up cliff (50 ft. high) CR 3 Skill Challenge DC 17; 3 Perception (Spot) checks, 6 Acrobatic (Balance) checks; Fumble: Fall off side for 5d6 damage; Failure: Encounter CR 3 trap on stairs half way up, if survived, reach top of stairs at ¼ normal movement rate; Success: Reach top of stairs unharmed at ½ normal movement rate; Superior Result (4 skill successes): Reach top of stairs unharmed at normal movement rate; Perfect Result (6 successes): Reach top of stairs unharmed at double movement rate.

Climb up crumbling rock face (50 ft. high) CR 5 Skill Challenge DC 18; 3 Athletics (Climb) checks, 3 Perception (Spot) checks; Fumble: Pummeled by falling rocks and fall for 5d6 damage; Failure: Fall for 2d6 damage; Success: Reach top of rock face at ¼ normal movement rate; Superior Result (4 skill successes): Reach top of rock face at 1/3 normal movement rate; Perfect Result (6 skill successes): Reach top of rock face at ½ normal movement rate.

Chase Challenges Chase challenges are wild, no–holds barred affairs meant to corner or capture an opponent after a grueling race. Like other skill challenges, each individual makes their own skill checks to determine whether pursuit is successful or not. Rarely does the actual chase determine whether the opponent is caught; most chases end with a fight between the pursuer and the pursued to determine the truly final outcome.

Open, empty street footchase – CR 1 Skill Challenge DC 14; 3 Athletics (Run) checks, 3 Acrobatics (Balance) checks; Failure: Loose track of opponent; Success: Corner opponent (combat encounter); Superior Result (4 skill successes): Catch opponent (combat encounter, opponent starts grappled); Perfect Result (6 successes): Capture opponent (bypass combat encounter). Combat Encounter: human Rogue 1.

Open, light traffic street footchase CR 3 Skill Challenge DC 16; 3 Athletics (Run) checks, 3 Acrobatics (Balance) checks; Failure: Loose track of opponent; Success: Corner opponent (combat encounter); Superior Result (4 skill successes): Catch opponent (combat encounter, opponent starts grappled); Perfect Result (6 successes): Capture opponent (bypass combat encounter). Combat Encounter: CR 3 opponent.

Evade City Guard CR 4 Skill Challenge DC 17; 3 Athletics (Run) checks, 3 Acrobatics (Balance) checks; Fumble: Captured by city guard without a fight; Failure: Confront city guard, escape if defeat city guard or move 90 ft. or more away from city guard; Success: Evade city guard; Superior Result (4 skill successes): Evade city guard and find disguise to avoid notice; Perfect Result (6 successes): Evade city guard and steal a city guard's uniform in the process City Guard: Warrior 4

Crowded city footchase – CR 5 Skill Challenge DC 18; 3 Athletics (Run) checks, 3 Acrobatics (Balance) checks; Fumble: Detained by city guard for disrupting city streets and loose track of opponent; Failure: Loose track of opponent; Success: Corner opponent (combat encounter); Superior Result (4 skill successes): Catch opponent (combat encounter, opponent starts grappled); Perfect Result (6 successes): Capture opponent (bypass combat encounter). City Guard: 1d4+2 human Warrior 4; Combat Encounter: CR 10 opponent.

City rooftop footchase – CR 10 Skill Challenge DC 23; 2 Athletics (Run) checks, 2 Athletics (Jump) checks, 2 Acrobatics (Balance) checks; Fumble: Fall for 5d6 damage and loose opponent; Failure: Loose opponent; Success: Corner opponent (combat encounter); Superior Result (4 skill successes): Catch opponent (combat encounter, opponent starts grappled); Perfect Result (6 successes): Capture opponent (bypass combat encounter). Combat Encounter: CR 10 opponent.

Race Challenges Race challenges can be friendly, competitive affairs or flights for one's live against encroaching doom. Like other skill challenges each individual makes their own set of skill checks to determine success or failure. In competative races, it is usually illegal for others to assist an individual to succeed or fail, but in flights from danger it is often advantageous for other characters to use Aid Another actions to help fellow party members or to lend skill points to help a comrade escape certain doom.

Competative Foot Race – CR 1 Skill Challenge DC 14; 6 Athletics (Run) Checks; Failure: Fall 1 step behind opponent(s); Success (3 skill successes): Keep pace in race; Superior Success (4 skill successes): Move 1 step ahead of opponent(s); Perfect Result (6 successes): Move 2 steps ahead of opponents(s). Winner is the character furthest ahead in race.

Competative Obstacle Race – CR 2 Skill Challenge DC 15; 3 Acrobatics (Tumble) checks, 3 Athletics (Run) checks; Failure: Fall 1 step behind opponent(s); Success (3 skill successes): Keep pace in race; Superior Success (4 skill successes): Move 1 step ahead of opponent(s); Perfect Result (6 successes): Move 2 steps ahead of opponents(s). Winner is the character furthest ahead in race.

Outrun crumbling floor – CR 5 Skill Challenge DC 18; 3 Athletic (Jump) checks, 3 Athletics (Run) Checks; Failure: Fall into yawning pit for 5d6 damage; Success (3 skill successes): Outrun crumbling floor, but hanging onto edge; Superior Success (4 skill successes): Outrun crumbling floor but prone on solid surface; Perfect Result (6 successes): Outrun crumbling floor and standing on solid surface.

Outrun floor dissolving into magma – CR 10 Skill Challenge DC 23; 2 Acrobatic (Balance) checks, 2 Athletic (Jump) checks, 2 Athletics (Run) Checks; Fumble: Fall in lava for 20d6 damage; Failure: Singed by lava for 10d6 damage, but prone on solid surface; Success (3 skill successes): singed for 2d6 heat damage, outrun dissolving floor but prone on solid surface; Superior Success (4 skill successes): Outrun dissolving floor unharmed but prone on solid surface; Perfect Result (6 successes): Outrun dissolving floor unharmed and standing on solid surface.

Infiltration Challenges Infiltration challenges require the undetected entry of an individual into a structure or location. Like other challenges, each individual makes their own checks to discern their progress. It is possible for one individual to enter undetected while another accidentally alerts local authorities to his presence – or worse.

Sneak into abandoned building – CR 1 Skill Challenge DC 14; 3 Stealth (Hide) checks, 3 Stealth (Move Silently) checks; Fumble: Fail to get inside and stopped by city guard; Failure: Fail to enter building; Success (3 successes): Enter building but seen by locals entering; Superior Success (4 successes): Enter building but passer–bys will may spot entry (Perception (Spot) DC 20 to notice); Perfect Success (6 successes): Enter building undetected and leave no trace of entry. City Guards: 1d4+2 human Warrior 4.

Bluff way into occupied commoner building – CR 2 Skill Challenge DC 15; 2 Deception (Bluff) checks, 2 Deception (Disguise) checks, 2 Persuade (Diplomacy) checks, Fumble: Fail to get inside and approached by city guard; Failure: Fail to enter building; Success (3 successes): Enter building but occupants are suspicious of character; Superior Success (4 successes): Enter building and occupants are not wise to the character; Perfect Success (6 successes): Enter building and occupants treat characters as guest of honor. City Guards: 1d4+2 human Warrior 4.

Sneak into occupied commoner building – CR 2 Skill Challenge DC 15; 2 Disable Device (Open Locks) checks [DC 20], 2 Stealth (Hide) checks, 2 Stealth (Move Silently) checks; Fumble: Fail to get inside and stopped by city guard; Failure: Fail to enter building; Success (3 successes): Enter building but seen by locals entering; Superior Success (4 successes): Enter building but passer–bys will may spot entry (Perception (Spot) DC 20 to notice); Perfect Success (6 successes): Enter building

undetected and leave no trace of entry. City Guards: 1d4+2 human Warrior 4.

Sneak into fortified building – CR 4 Skill Challenge DC 17; 2 Disable Device (Open Locks) [DC 25], 2 Stealth (Hide) checks, 2 Stealth (Move Silently) checks; Fumble: Fail to get inside and stopped by city guard; Failure: Fail to enter building; Success (3 successes): Enter building but seen by locals entering (who most likely alert city guard); Superior Success (4 successes): Enter building but passer–bys will may spot entry (Perception (Spot) DC 20 to notice); Perfect Success (6 successes): Enter building undetected and leave no trace of entry. City Guards: 1d4+2 human Warrior 4.

Escape/Enter city walls– CR 5 Skill Challenge DC 18; 2 Stealth (Hide) checks, 2 Stealth (Move Silently) checks, 2 Survival (Streetwise) checks; Fumble: Fail to escape/enter and arrested by city guard without a fight; Failure: Fail to enter/exit city walls and confronted by city guards; Success (3 successes): Exit/enter city walls but presence is noted (and likely city guards dispatched); Superior Success (4 successes): Enter/exit city walls but nearby city guard may spot entry (Perception (Spot) DC 20 to notice); Perfect Success (6 successes): Enter/exit city walls undetected and leave no trace of passage. City Guards: 1d4+2 human Warrior 4.

Penetrate wizard's sanctum – CR 10 Skill Challenge DC 23; 2 Disable Device (Disable Device)[DC 28], 2 Stealth (Hide) checks, 2 Stealth (Move Silently) checks; Fumble: Fail to get inside and struck by explosive runes spell (CL 9); Failure: Fail to enter building and seen by city guard; Success (3 successes): Enter building but seen by owning wizard; Superior Success (4 successes): Enter building but passer–bys will may spot entry (Perception (Spot) DC 20 to notice); Perfect Success (6 successes): Enter building undetected and leave no trace of entry. City Guards: 1d4+2 human Warrior 4. Wizard: human Wizard 9.

Manuever Challenges Manuever challenges require the circumnavigation of an area with twisting passages, trails or other obstacles that can impede progress forward. Like other challenges, each individual makes their own checks to discern their progress; it is easy for individuals to wander off, become seperated or otherwise isolated from other individuals in a group. Those who intend to lead others through these sort of challenges are highly encouraged to lend skill points to others to help them maneuver through the challenge.

Navigate Hedge Maze – CR 1 Skill Challenge DC 14; 2 Survival (Wilderness Lore) checks, 2 Perception (Spot) checks, 2 Knowledge (Architechure & Engineering) checks; Fumble: Dead end (start over); Failure: Lost in maze (repeat until 1 more success); Success (3 successes): Locate exit after 4d10x10 minutes; Superior Success (4 successes): Locate exit after 2d10x10 minutes; Perfect Success (6 successes): Locate exit after 1d10x10 minutes.

Navigate Dungeon Maze – CR 2 Skill Challenge DC 15; 2 Survival (Wilderness Lore) checks, 2 Knowledge (Dungeoneering) checks, 2 Knowledge (Architechure & Engineering) checks; Fumble: Dead end (start over); Failure: Lost in maze (repeat until 1 more success); Success (3 successes): Locate exit after 4d10x10 minutes; Superior Success (4 successes): Locate exit after 2d10x10 minutes; Perfect Success (6 successes): Locate exit after 1d10x10 minutes.

Navigate Monstrous Maze – CR 4 Skill Challenge DC 17; 2 Survival (Wilderness Lore) checks, 2 Perception (Spot) checks, 2 Knowledge (Architechure & Engineering) checks; Fumble: Ambushed by minotaur in dead end; Failure: Encounter minotaur; Success (3 successes): Reach exit blocked by minotaur; Superior Success (4 successes): Reach exit with minotaur trailing (30 ft. behind); Perfect Success (6 successes): Reach exit and avoid minotaur; Maze encounter: CR 4 minotaur

Navigate Invisible (Wall of Force) Maze – CR 6 Skill Challenge DC 19; 2 Survival (Wilderness Lore) checks, 2 Perception (Spot) checks, 2 Spellcraft (Arcane) checks; Fumble: Ambushed by phantom fungus in dead end; Failure: Encounter phantom fungus; Success (3 successes): Reach exit blocked by phantom fungus; Superior Success (4 successes): Reach exit with phantom fungus trailing (30 ft. behind); Perfect Success (6 successes): Reach exit and avoid phantom fungus; Maze encounter: 2 CR 3 phantom fungus

Search Challenges Sometimes objects or information are hidden and a thourough search is the only way to locate the needed information or items. Search challenges usually have an enemy of time or other constraints before something bad happens – whether it is enemies who show up, a trap activates or finishes activating or other pressure situation. A search with no time constraint is generally not a challenge. Like other challenges, each individual makes their own set of skill checks. Usually the best result applies – whoever finds the object of the search can easily share his discovery with the others.

Library search – CR 1 Skill Challenge DC 14; 2 Knowledge (Choose One) checks, 2 Perception (Spot), 2 Persuade (Gather Information) checks; Fumble: Ejected from library and not allowed to return; Failure: Information unavailable; Success (3

successes): Information found in 1d10 x 10 minutes; Superior Success (4 successes): Information found in 1d10 x 5 minutes; Perfect Success (6 successes): Information found in 1d10 minutes.

Burning Library search – CR 2 Skill Challenge DC 15; 2 Perception (Spot) checks, 2 Knowledge (Choose One) checks, 2 Knowledge (Architechure & Engineering) checks; Fumble: Pinned under burning bookcase. 1d6 fire damage/round; Strength check DC 15 to escape; Failure: No information and burned for 1d6 fire damage; Success (3 successes): Find information in 1d10x5 minutes and take 1d6 nonlethal heat damage; Superior Success (4 successes): Find information in 1d10 minutes and take 1d6 nonlethal heat damage (Fort DC 12 for half); Perfect Success (6 successes): Find information in 1 round and escape unharmed.

Delayed Trap activation cut–off search – CR 5 Skill Challenge DC 18; 3 Perception (Spot) checks, 3 Disable Device checks (DC 25); Failure: CR 5 trap; Success (3 successes): Deactivate and open trap after 1 minute (must hold breath for 6 rounds); Superior Success (4 successes): Deactivate and open trap after 5 rounds (must hold breath for 1 round); Perfect Success (6 successes): Deactivate and open trap after 1 round; Trap: Flooding Room Trap (CR 5).

Thinking Challenges Similar to traps (and often incorporating them), thinking challenges present individuals with a problem requiring thought or trial–and–error to successfully solve or bypass. While thinking challenges often only involve a single individual, complex thinking challenges may require each individual to manipulate some aspect of the puzzle to solve the whole, or may require individuals to work on a single part of the puzzle, making only one or two of the skill checks in the series (such as for riddles or passwords).

Easy Puzzle Lock – CR 1 Skill Challenge DC 14; 3 Disable Device (Open Locks) checks, 3 Perception (Touch) checks; Failure: Lock does not open; Success (3 successes): Lock opens after 1d10 minutes; Superior Success (4 successes): Lock opens after 1d6 minutes; Perfect Success (6 successes): Lock opens after 1 minute.

Easy Riddle Password – CR 2 Skill Challenge DC 15; 2 Knowledge (Local) checks, 2 Perception (Listen) checks, 2 Perception (Sense Motive) checks; Failure: Wrong password and attacked by guardian; Success (3 successes): Correct password given after three tries; Superior Success (4 successes): Correct password given after two tries; Perfect Success (6 successes): Correct password given in a single try.Guardian: Imp (Devil, CR 2)

Average Riddle Password – CR 4 Skill Challenge DC 17; 2 Knowledge (Local) checks, 2 Perception (Listen) checks, 2 Perception (Sense Motive) checks; Failure: Wrong password and attacked by guardian; Success (3 successes): Correct password given after three tries; Superior Success (4 successes): Correct password given after two tries; Perfect Success (6 successes): Correct password given in a single try. Guardian: Gargoyle (CR 4)

Hard Riddle Password – CR 18 Skill Challenge DC 21; 2 Knowledge (Local) checks, 2 Perception (Listen) checks, 2 Perception (Sense Motive) checks; Failure: Wrong password and attacked by guardian; Success (3 successes): Correct password given after three tries; Superior Success (4 successes): Correct password given after two tries; Perfect Success (6 successes): Correct password given in a single try.Guardian: Gynosphinx (CR 8)

Travel Challenges Rather than random encounter checks, travel challenges can indicate both a group's luck and skill at avoiding trouble when travelling from location from another. Like other skill challenges, each individual makes their own checks. However, groups rarely become seperated during travel – use the worst result to determine the outcome. If some characters succeed where others fail, the GM may wish to break the group up if an encounter occurs, simulating an encounter when one or more characters is briefly seperated from the rest of group (perhaps such as while gathering firewood for camp or relieving himself during a rest stop).

Average Road trek – CR 1 Skill Challenge DC 14; 6 Wilderness (Survival) checks; Fumble: Ambushed by bandits; Failure: Travelling encounter; Success (3 successes): Reach next community (or checkpoint) at normal travel rate; Superior Success (4 successes): Encounter indifferent merchant on way to next community, reach next community (or checkpoint) at normal travel rate; Perfect Success (6 successes): Encounter friendly merchant on way to next community, reach next community (or checkpoint) at normal travel rate. Bandits: 1d4+2 Rogue 1; Travelling Encounter: CR 1; Merchant: Expert 2, GP limit 200 gp.

Wilderness trek – CR 2 Skill Challenge DC 15; 6 Wilderness (Survival) checks; Fumble: Ambushed by bandits; Failure: Travelling encounter; Success (3 successes): Reach next community (or checkpoint) at ½ travel rate; Superior Success (4 successes): Reach next community (or checkpoint) at 3/4 travel rate; Perfect Success (6 successes): Reach next community (or checkpoint) at normal travel rate. Bandits: 1d4+2 Rogue 2; Travelling Encounter: CR 2

Borderlands wilderness trek – CR 3 Skill Challenge DC 16; 3 Perception (Spot) checks 3 Wilderness (Survival) checks; Fumble: Lost; Failure: CR 3 Travelling encounter; Success (3 successes): Reach next community (or checkpoint) at ½ travel rate; Superior Success (4 successes): Reach next community (or checkpoint) at 2/3 travel rate; Perfect Success (6 successes): Reach next community (or checkpoint) at normal travel rate.

Bandit–infested road trek – CR 4 Skill Challenge DC 17; 3 Perception (Spot) checks 3 Wilderness (Survival) checks; Fumble: Ambushed by bandits; Failure: Confronted by bandits; Success (3 successes): Reach next community (or checkpoint) at normal travel rate; Superior Success (4 successes): Encounter indifferent merchant on way to next community, reach next community (or checkpoint) at normal travel rate; Perfect Success (6 successes): Encounter friendly merchant on way to next community, reach next community (or checkpoint) at normal travel rate. Bandits: 1d4+2 Rogue 4; Merchant: Expert 2, GP limit 200 gp.

Evil–controlled lands trek – CR 10 Skill Challenge DC 23; 3 Perception (Spot) checks, 3 Wilderness (Survival) checks; Fumble: Ambushed by bandits; Failure: Travelling encounter; Success (3 successes): Reach next community (or checkpoint) at ½ travel rate; Superior Success (4 successes): Reach next community (or checkpoint) at 3/4 travel rate; Perfect Success (6 successes): Reach next community (or checkpoint) at normal travel rate. Bandits: 1d4+2 Warrior 5/Rogue 4; Travelling Encounter: CR 10 encounter.

Weather Challenges Unexepected – or magically summoned – weather can sometime catch a party in an uncomfortable or dangerous position. Like other skill challenges, each individual must make separate skill checks to determine their personal outcome. Extremely hazardous weather can often separate individuals, and in such dangerous conditions the use of Aid Another or lending skill points is useful in keeping a group together.

Rainstorm CR 1 Skill Challenge DC 14; 6 Survival (Wilderness) checks; Failure: All gear soaked, –2 to all checks until dried; Success: Find safe shelter from storm; Superior Result (4 skill successes): as success in locating an inn or other populated place; Perfect Result (6 successes): As superior result and storm ends early.

Thunderstorm CR 3 Skill Challenge DC 16; 6 Survival (Wilderness) checks; Fumble: Near–strike by lightning deals 3d6 damage (half with successful DC 13 Reflex save); Failure: All gear soaked, –2 to all checks until dried; Success: Find safe shelter from storm; Superior Result (4 skill successes): as success in locating an inn or other populated place; Perfect Result (6 successes): As superior result and storm ends early.

Blizzard CR 5 Skill Challenge DC 18; 6 Survival (Wilderness) checks; Fumble: Suffer 5d6 frostbite damage (half with a successful DC 15 Fortitude save); Failure: All gear soaked, –2 to all checks until dried, locate feeble natural shelter from storm; Success: Find safe shelter from storm; Superior Result (4 skill successes): as success in a inn or other populated place; Perfect Result (6 successes): As superior result and storm ends early.

Hurricaine CR 10 Skill Challenge DC 23; 6 Survival (Wilderness) checks; Fumble: Suffer 10d6 damage from flying debris (half with a successful DC 20 Reflex save); Failure: All gear soaked, –2 to all checks until dried, suffer 3d6 damage from debris strikes (half with a successful DC 20 Reflex save); Success: Find safe shelter from storm, though it is damaged by the storm; Superior Result (4 skill successes): as success in fortified building or other populated place; Perfect Result (6 successes): As superior result and no storm damage.
 

Libramarian

Adventurer
I love this kind of stuff and I'd be interested to see what the 5e designers come up with, but I worry that it will be too abstract and "gamey". It's so key that you keep the resources used concrete and tangible, because that's what allows you to incorporate real-world player knowledge and creativity into the equation. The equipment list should integrate with these rules for sure.
 

Quickleaf

Legend
First, I notice that there's degrees of success, which is cool. That's something that SC's could use more of, it helps give it that sense of time passing that I noted above as a good thing.

Second, I notice that there's no "real" penalty for failure. The worst that could happen is that the party gets into a fight, which isn't much of a penalty, especially given 4e's high survival rate. The penalties for failing a check just encourage the party to rest more often, and there's nothing preventing them from resting after every check if they want to play it safe. I'm not sure what the Kobold Threat Rating is, so that may address this point.
Like I said, it's a WIP. If you're not familiar with Dragon Mountain, part of the point it that there is no safe place to rest from the kobolds. The Kobold Threat Rating I'm still working out, but yes it would create problems for resting.

Also, the worst that could happen isn't just a fight - it could be a trap. ;)

I like the use of random tables, and linking them to making a check, but I also think that this would take me about 2-4 months of actual gameplay to make it into the "deep level" like that, using 4e style combats. I also notice that this doesn't allow for skipping encounters or using any tactics to avoid them.
Well, the conversion is with minion-ized kobolds, so very much not the typical 4e combat. That's precisely why I'm converting it this way, because my group doesn't have the time or inclination to slog through a dungeon for 2-4 months. IOW the random fights with this system go hand-in-hand with a very different approach to combat than traditionally done in 4e.

I'm also noticing that the "passageways" and (to a lesser degree) the "traps" don't do much if you're not in a fight when you "encounter" them. There's nothing inherently interesting beyond fights here.
You're correct about the chambers/passages and I'm changing that.

I emphatically disagree with you that the traps aren't interesting! I've used several of those in my games as just traps, and they were quite entertaining and posed dilemmas to the group: should we destroy the hornets or can we channel them toward our enemies? now that the bridge is down do we search for a different route or get out the rope?

It also shares some of the problems with Stornomu's SC in that it doesn't use class abilities, it doesn't involve strategic thinking, and it generally just involves choosing whatever skills make sense and using them over and over again until you have what you want.
That just seems overly critical and doesn't map to my experience. Why do you say that?

A far sight better than most SC's I've seen, but still....too fluffy, too fighty, too vaporous, not crunchy, not engaging, not solid and tangible. Steps in the right direction, but we need moar.
Thanks. I'd like to see your example of what you're looking for?
 

kerleth

Explorer
Stormonu's example at the end of last page is awesome. I do see a few problems though.
1) You need EXCELLENT advice in the rules for what to do if they don't succeed at the check. It could go multiple ways, and I could DM it, but the advice needs to be there and be high enough quality that even experienced DM's pick up a trick or two from it.
2) The majority of it ended up being roll this skill.....then roll that skill......then roll that skill. That doesn't entirely address the concerns of the OP. I do think it's a step in the right directions, but we need crunchy mechanics that push it even farther that way.
 

Stormonu

Legend
Just to throw this in (it's very, very long), this was a system I completely abandoned that I was working on for social encounters - to make them as detailed as combats. I think it's waaaaaaay overdone.

[sblock]

Social Encounters

Social encounters are sitituations where two or more parties interact in a non–violent manner. This may be as simple as haggling with a merchant to something as complex as attempting to convince a dragon to hand over the maiden it is holding captive.

Social Statistics

Social encounters are driven by skills, namely the Persuasion skill. The target’s Will save is the DC for a given Persuasion skill to succeed. A single success does not automatically guarantee that an individual influences the opposing side, but instead allows the character to beat down the opposition’s will to agree to the demands of the other side.

Persuasion Bonus

Your ability to persuade others depends on the skill you use to persuade the opposition. You use either the Persuade (Diplomacy), Persuade (Intimidate), Persuade (Gather Information), Persuade (Seduce) or Persuade (Torture) to persuade other beings.

Damage

When you make a successful Persuasion check, you deal damage to the character’s resolve. The amount of damage dealt is 1d6 nonlethal damage, plus your Charisma modifier. You deal +1d6 damage for every 5 ranks of Persuade you possess.
Torture: Using Persuade (Torture) inflicts physical damage as well as nonlethal damage. The amount of damage Persuade (Torture) inflicts depends on the implement used to extract information. Persuade (Torture) damage is normally nonlethal damage.
Minimum Damage: A successful Persuasion check always deals at least one point of nonlethal damage.

Influence DC

Your ability to resist being persuaded is equal to 15 + Will save modifier. The DC is further modified as follows, based on the target’s initial attitude towards the persuader and what is being asked of the target.

The grades of attitudes are as follows:
Animosity: The target will go out of its way to harm you. They may attack, lie, berate, torture or otherwise attempt to slay the character. If outclassed, the target will likely remain to cause the character as much harm as possible before expiring.
Hostile: The target will take risks to hurt you. They may attack, berate, or interfere with the character. If outclassed, the target will likely flee.
Unfriendly:The target wishes you ill. They may mislead, gossip, avoid, watch suspiciously, or insult the character. If outclassed, the target will likely withdraw or simply be unhelpful.
Indifferent: The target doesn’t much care. They will react appropriately to the social situation they are put in. If outclassed, the target will likely leave for greener pastures.
Friendly: The target wishes you well. They will often chat, advise, offer limited help or advocate in the characters behalf, so long as such help does not put them at great risk. If outclassed, the target will side with the characters, but may back out if the risk is too great.
Helpful: The target will take risks to help you. They will protect, back up, heal aid or otherwise assist the character. The target will assist the character to the best of their ability, and may even lay down their life to assist the character.
Fanatic: The target will die for you. They will protect, intercede, heal and do anything the character asks. They will lay down their life to aid the character with no questions asked.

<Target Modifiers to DC for Attitude, range +20 to -10>

<Modifiers to DC for action or favor requested>

Resolve

When your nonlethal damage equals or exceeds your hit points, the opposing side has successfully persuaded you. If the opposing side was not attempting to persuade you towards a particular action, your persuasion attempt simply fails. A failed persuasion attempt cannot be retried for 24 hours. After a social encounter ends, all nonlethal damage from the social encounter goes away.


Actions in A Social Encounter


The Social Round

Each round represents 6 seconds in the game world. A round presents an opportunity for each character to provide an argument to persuade another.
Each round’s activity begins with the character with the highest initiative result and then proceeds, in order, from there. Each round of a combat uses the same initiative order. When a character’s turn comes up in the initiative sequence

Action Types

An action’s type essentially tells you how long the action takes to perform (within the framework of the 6–second social round) and how movement is treated. There are four types of actions: standard actions, move actions, full–round actions, and free actions.
In a normal round, you can perform a standard action and a move action, or you can perform a full–round action. You can also perform one or more free actions. You can always take a move action in place of a standard action.
In some situations (such as in a surprise round), you may be limited to taking only a single move action or standard action.
Standard Action: A standard action allows you to do something, most commonly make an attack or cast a spell. See Table: Actions in Combat for other standard actions.
Move Action: A move action allows you to move your speed or perform an action that takes a similar amount of time. See Table: Actions in Combat.
You can take a move action in place of a standard action. If you move no actual distance in a round (commonly because you have swapped your move for one or more equivalent actions), you can take one 5–foot step either before, during, or after the action.
Full–Round Action: A full–round action consumes all your effort during a round. The only movement you can take during a full–round action is a 5–foot step before, during, or after the action. You can also perform free actions (see below).
Some full–round actions do not allow you to take a 5–foot step.
Some full–round actions can be taken as standard actions, but only in situations when you are limited to performing only a standard action during your round. The descriptions of specific actions, below, detail which actions allow this option.
Free Action: Free actions consume a very small amount of time and effort. You can perform one or more free actions while taking another action normally. However, there are reasonable limits on what you can really do for free.
Not an Action: Some activities are so minor that they are not even considered free actions. They literally don’t take any time at all to do and are considered an inherent part of doing something else.
Restricted Activity: In some situations, you may be unable to take a full round’s worth of actions. In such cases, you are restricted to taking only a single standard action or a single move action (plus free actions as normal). You can’t take a full–round action (though you can start or complete a full–round action by using a standard action; see below).

Standard Action
Activate Magic Item
Aid another’s Persuasion
Avoid Confrontation
Bluff
Cast a Spell1,2
Concentrate to maintain an active spell1,2
Dismiss a spell
Drink a potion or apply an oil
Harden Resolve
Make a dying friend stable (see Survival (Heal) skill)
Persuade (Diplomacy)
Persuade (Gather Information)
Persuade (Intimidate)
Persuade (Seduce)
Persuade (Torture)
Read a scroll1,2
Resist Torture
Sense Motive
Standard Combat Action2
Use a skill that takes 1 action
Use extraordinary ability1,2
Use spell–like ability1,2
Use supernatural ability1,2


1 If this action negatively affects the opposing side, it is considered hostile and has a negative penalty to Persuasion attempts (–2 circumstance penalty unless otherwise noted).
2 Attacking an enemy instantly brings a Social encounter to an end

Standard Actions


Activate Magic Item

Many magic items don’t need to be activated. However, certain magic items need to be activated, especially potions, scrolls, wands, rods, and staffs. Activating a magic item is a standard action (unless the item description indicates otherwise).
Spell Completion Items: Activating a spell completion item is the equivalent of casting a spell. It requires concentration and provokes attacks of opportunity. You lose the spell if your concentration is broken, and you can attempt to activate the item while on the defensive, as with casting a spell.
Spell Trigger, Command Word, or Use–Activated Items: Activating any of these kinds of items does not require concentration and does not provoke attacks of opportunity.
If you activate a magic item that has a negative effect on the opposing side (such as Charm Person or Dominate), you apply a –5 modifier to Persuade checks.
If you use a magic item that has a harmful effect on the opposing side (such as a wand of magic bolt), the social encounter ends immediately and combat begins.

Aid another’s Persuasion

You make a DC 10 Persuasion check. If successful, you add +2 to another being’s Persuasion check.

Avoid Confrontation

The being takes an active defense against being persuaded. It gains a +2 dodge bonus to the Influence DC to be persuaded. This modifier lasts until the being’s next action.
If you use this action and your opponent fails to deal resolve damage to you for three rounds in a row, you become immune to further attempts by that opponent to persuade you.

Bluff

You use a lie to attempt to persuade a being to do as you ask. Make a Deception (Bluff) check against the target’s Perception (Insight) skill check. If you succeed, your deal 1d6 nonlethal damage, +1d6 nonlethal damage per 5 ranks of Deception (Bluff) you possess, plus your Charisma modifier. The target may choose to take 10 on his check.
If you fail a Deception (Bluff) check, the opponent gains a +4 bonus to all future Perception (Insight) skill checks against you for the encounter.
Bluffing during Torture: As a special action, if you are being tortured, you can attempt to Bluff your torturer with false information. You deal damage as normal for a Bluff check. If you succeed in dealing enough nonlethal damage to equal or exceed the Torturer’s hit points, you have managed to convince them that your false information is true. Until the torturer is able to otherwise ascertain that you have lied to him, he cannot attempt to torture you for the same information.

Cast a Spell

Most spells require 1 standard action to cast. You can cast such a spell either before or after you take a move action.
All of the standard rules from the combat chapter apply to casting a spell.
If you cast a spell that has a negative effect on the opposing side (such as Charm Person or Dominate), you apply a –5 modifier to Persuade checks.
If you cast a harmful spell on the opposing side (such as magic bolt), the social encounter ends immediately and combat begins.

Harden Resolve

As a standard action, a creature may make a DC 15 Will save to attempt to negate nonlethal damage. If successful, 1d6 resolves points are regained per 5 ranks of Perception (Sense Motive) the creature has.
You may only attempt to Harden Resolve once per social encounter.

Persuade

With this action, a character or creature attempts to persuade the opposing person or side to perform a task of the persuader’s choice. You can attempt to persuade up to one being per point of Charsima modifier you possess at one time.
If you make a successful Persuade attempt, you deal nonlethal damage to the creature, attempting to break its resolve. A successful Persuade check normally deals 1d6 nonlethal damage + 1d6 nonlethal damage/5 points in the associated skill, plus your Charisma modifier.
Diplomacy: Using a form of friendly persuasion, you attempt to rally a being to your cause. You use perform to convince a creature to willingly perform a service for you. You cannot convince a creature to perform actions that oppose its basic nature or alignment.
Gather Information: You attempt to bait a being through trickery, compliments or other means to reveal information. You cannot use Persuade (Gather Information) to force a creature to reveal information that would be harmful to itself or its well–being.
Intimidate: Using strong–arm tactics or threats, you attempt to coerse a being to to do as you command. You use intimidate to force a creature to act as you command. You cannot command a creature to perform suicidal orders.
Seduce: You attempt to lure an individual through promises of favors or an emotional response to reveal information or perform a favor for you. You cannot convince a creature to willingly perform an action that would be harmful to itself or its well–being.
Torture: This skill can only be used on an opponent that cannot otherwise escape being tortured. By utilizing methods that cause physical pain to the subject, you attempt to extract information from your foe. Unlike other forms of persuasion, you can force an individual to reveal information that even it would normally not reveal due to its alignment or that may prove harmful to itself or others.
Unlike other forms of persuasion, torture deals physical damage as well as nonlethal damage. The amount of damage dealt is based on the implement used to torture the individual. If no implement is specificed, it is assumed the torturer is using an unarmed attack to torture the victim.
A creature being tortured can usually only respond with the Resist Torture or Bluff action.

Resist Torture

Normally, a creature being tortured can only perform this action, or respond to Torture with the Bluff action.
By resisting torture, you attempt to frustrate your opponent’s efforts to effectively torture you. You make a Will save DC 20. If you succeed, you deal 1d6 nonlethal damage to your torturer, plus an additional +1d6 nonlethal damage per +5 base Will save you have.
If the Torturer’s nonlethal damage equal or exceeds his hit points, you have frustrated his attempts to extract information from you. You cannot be effectively tortured by the same opponent for 24 hours. Further torture by this individual within this time span can still inflict physical damage to you, but not nonlethal damage.

Use Special Ability

Using a special ability is usually a standard action, but whether it is a standard action, a full–round action, or not an action at all is defined by the ability.
Spell–Like Abilities: Using a spell–like ability works like casting a spell in that it requires concentration and provokes attacks of opportunity. Spell–like abilities can be disrupted. If your concentration is broken, the attempt to use the ability fails, but the attempt counts as if you had used the ability. The casting time of a spell–like ability is 1 standard action, unless the ability description notes otherwise.
Supernatural Abilities: Using a supernatural ability is usually a standard action (unless defined otherwise by the ability’s description).
Extraordinary Abilities: Using an extraordinary ability is usually not an action because most extraordinary abilities automatically happen in a reactive fashion. Those extraordinary abilities that are actions are usually standard actions that cannot be disrupted, and do not require concentration.
If you use an ability that has a negative effect on the opposing side (such as Charm Person or Dominate), you apply a –5 modifier to Persuade checks.
If you use a harmful ability on the opposing side (such as magic bolt), the social encounter ends immediately and combat begins.

Move Actions


Move Action
Move
Control a frightened mount
Direct or redirect an active spell
Draw a weapon1
Load a hand crossbow or light crossbow1
Open or close a door
Mount a horse or dismount
Move a heavy object
Pick up an item
Sense Motive
Sheathe a weapon
Stand up from prone
Ready or loose a shield1
Retrieve a stored item
1 These actions are generally considered hostile and have a negative penalty to Persuasion attempts. (–2 circumstance penalty unless otherwise noted).

Move

The simplest move action is moving your speed. If you take this kind of move action during your turn, you can’t also take a 5–foot step.
Many nonstandard modes of movement are covered under this category, including climbing (up to one–quarter of your speed) and swimming (up to one–quarter of your speed).
Accelerated Climbing: You can climb one–half your speed as a move action by accepting a –5 penalty on yourAthletics (Climb)check.
Crawling: You can crawl 5 feet as a move action. Crawling incurs attacks of opportunity from any attackers who threaten you at any point of your crawl.

Draw or Sheathe a Weapon

Drawing a weapon so that you can use it in combat, or putting it away so that you have a free hand, requires a move action. This action also applies to weapon–like objects carried in easy reach, such as wands. If your weapon or weapon–like object is stored in a pack or otherwise out of easy reach, treat this action as retrieving a stored item.
Drawing ammunition for use with a ranged weapon (such as arrows, bolts, sling bullets, or shuriken) is a free action.
Drawing a weapon is consider a hostile action, and invokes a –2 penalty to Persuade checks for as long as the weapon is unsheathed. Drawing more than one weapon does not increase the penalty to Persuade.

Ready or Loose a Shield

Strapping a shield to your arm to gain its shield bonus to your AC, or unstrapping and dropping a shield so you can use your shield hand for another purpose, requires a move action. If you have a base attack bonus of +1 or higher, you can ready or loose a shield as a free action combined with a regular move.
Dropping a carried (but not worn) shield is a free action.
Readying or having a readied shield is considered a hostile act, and invokes a –2 circumstance penalty to Persuade checks.

Manipulate an Item

In most cases, moving or manipulating an item is a move action.
This includes retrieving or putting away a stored item, picking up an item, moving a heavy object, and opening a door. Examples of this kind of action are given in Table:Actions in Social Encounters.

Direct or Redirect a Spell

Some spells allow you to redirect the effect to new targets or areas after you cast the spell. Redirecting a spell requires a move action and does not provoke attacks of opportunity or require concentration.
If you cast a spell that has a negative effect on the opposing side (such as Charm Person or Dominate), you apply a –5 modifier to Persuade checks.
If you cast a harmful spell on the opposing side (such as magic bolt), the social encounter ends immediately and combat begins.

Sense Motive

You use Perception (Sense Motive) to attempt to determine a weak point in a being’s resolve, or to determine if you have been bluffed.
If you make a successful Perception (Sense Motive) skill check against the being’s Persuasion DC, you gain a +1 insight bonus to your Persuade checks per 5 ranks of Perception (Sense Motive) you possess.

Stand Up

Standing up from a prone position requires a move action and provokes attacks of opportunity.

Mount/Dismount a Steed

Mounting or dismounting from a steed requires a move action.
Fast Mount or Dismount: You can mount or dismount as a free action with a DC 20 Handle Animal (Ride) check (your armor check penalty, if any, applies to this check). If you fail the check, mounting or dismounting is a move action instead. (You can’t attempt a fast mount or fast dismount unless you can perform the mount or dismount as a move action in the current round.)

Full–Round Actions



Full–Round Action
Change Alignment
Change Attitude
Escape from a net
Extinguish flames
Full–round attack action2
Light a torch
Load a heavy or repeating crossbow1
Prepare to throw splash weapon1
Run
Use skill that takes 1 round
Use touch spell on up to six friends2,3
Verbal Assault1
Withdraw
1 These actions are generally considered hostile and have a negative penalty to Persuasion attempts (–2 circumstance penalty unless otherwise noted).
2 If this action negatively affects the opposing side, it is considered hostile and has a negative penalty to Persuasion attempts
3 Attacking an enemy instantly brings a Social encounter to an end

A full–round action requires an entire round to complete. Thus, it can’t be coupled with a standard or a move action, though if it does not involve moving any distance, you can take a 5–foot step.

Change Alignment

This is an attempt to change a being’s alignment to match your own. You cannot change a being’s alignment more than two steps in a given week. You can only attempt to change the alignment of a being who has an attitude of Friendly or better towards you.

Changing alignment is a Persuade (Seduce) check against the Influence DC. Opponents who have an alignment restriction to their class (such as Barbarians, Bards, Druids, Monks, and Chosen ones) gain a +10 bonus to their Influence DC if the alignment change would prevent them advancing in their class.

If you succeed, you deal damage as normal, 1d6 resolve points + 1d6 resolve points per 5 ranks of Persuade (Diplomacy), plus Charisma modifier.
If you reduce the being to 0 resolve or less, its alignment shifts one step towards yours (Law/Chaos axis first, then Good/Evil). If your opponent reduces you to 0 resolve or less, its attitude toward you degrades one grade and it retains its alignment.

Change Attitude

This is an attempt to change a being’s attitude towards the persuader to a more favorable condition. You cannot better a being’s attitutude towards you by more than two steps in a given week.
Changing attitudes is a Persuade (Diplomacy) check against the Influence DC. If you succeed, you deal damage as normal, 1d6 resolve points + 1d6 resolve points per 5 ranks of Persuade (Diplomacy), plus Charisma modifier.
If you reduce the being to 0 resolve or less, its attitude toward you improves one grade. If your opponent reduces you to 0 resolve or less, its attitude toward you degrades one grade.

Cast a Spell

A spell that takes 1 round to cast is a full–round action. It comes into effect just before the beginning of your turn in the round after you began casting the spell. You then act normally after the spell is completed.
A spell that takes 1 minute to cast comes into effect just before your turn 1 minute later (and for each of those 10 rounds, you are casting a spell as a full–round action). These actions must be consecutive and uninterrupted, or the spell automatically fails.
When you begin a spell that takes 1 round or longer to cast, you must continue the invocations, gestures, and concentration from one round to just before your turn in the next round (at least). If you lose concentration after starting the spell and before it is complete, you lose the spell.
You only provoke attacks of opportunity when you begin casting a spell, even though you might continue casting for at least one full round. While casting a spell, you don’t threaten any squares around you.
This action is otherwise identical to the cast a spell action described under Standard Actions.
Casting a Metamagic Spell: Sorcerers and bards must take more time to cast a metamagic spell (one enhanced by a metamagic feat) than a regular spell. If a spell’s normal casting time is 1 standard action, casting a metamagic version of the spell is a full–round action for a sorcerer or bard. Note that this isn’t the same as a spell with a 1–round casting time—the spell takes effect in the same round that you begin casting, and you aren’t required to continue the invocations, gestures, and concentration until your next turn. For spells with a longer casting time, it takes an extra full–round action to cast the metamagic spell.
Clerics must take more time to spontaneously cast a metamagic version of a cure or inflict spell.
Spontaneously casting a metamagic version of a spell with a casting time of 1 standard action is a full–round action, and spells with longer casting times take an extra full–round action to cast.
If you cast a spell that has a negative effect on the opposing side (such as Charm Person or Dominate), you apply a –5 modifier to Persuade checks.
If you cast a harmful spell on the opposing side (such as magic bolt), the social encounter ends immediately and combat begins.

Use Special Ability

Using a special ability is usually a standard action, but some may be full–round actions, as defined by the ability.
If you use an ability that has a negative effect on the opposing side (such as Charm Person or Dominate), you apply a –5 modifier to Persuade checks.
If you use an ability that has harmful effects on the opposing side (such as magic bolt), the social encounter ends immediately and combat begins.

Verbal Assault

This is a special form of persuasion used to attempt to overwhelm a being through non–stop talking. You make a Persuade check as normal. If you succeed, you deal an extra +1d6 resolve damage to your opponent. However, you suffer a –2 penalty to your own Resolve DC until your next turn.
You cannot use verbal assault with a Persuade (Torture) check.

Withdraw

Withdrawing from a social encounter is a full–round action. When you withdraw, you can move up to double your speed.
You may not withdraw using a form of movement for which you don’t have a listed speed.
Note that despite the name of this action, you don’t actually have to leave the social encounter entirely.
Restricted Withdraw: If you are limited to taking only a standard action each round you can withdraw as a standard action. In this case, you may move up to your speed (rather than up to double your speed).

Run

You can run as a full–round action. (If you do, you do not also get a 5–foot step.) When you run, you can move up to four times your speed in a straight line (or three times your speed if you’re in heavy armor). You lose any Dexterity bonus to AC unless you have the Run feat You can run for a number of rounds equal to your Constitution score, but after that you must make a DC 10 Constitution check to continue running. You must check again each round in which you continue to run, and the DC of this check increases by 1 for each check you have made. When you fail this check, you must stop running.
A character who has run to his limit must rest for 1 minute (10 rounds) before running again. During a rest period, a character can move no faster than a normal move action.
You can’t run across difficult terrain or if you can’t see where you’re going.
A run represents a speed of about 12 miles per hour for an unencumbered human.

Move 5 Feet through Difficult Terrain

In some situations, your movement may be so hampered that you don’t have sufficient speed even to move 5 feet (a single square). In such a case, you may spend a full–round action to move 5 feet (1 square) in any direction, even diagonally. Even though this looks like a 5–foot step, it’s not.

[FONT=&quot]F[/FONT]ree Actions


Free Action
Capitulate to Persuasion
Cast a quickened spell1
Cease concentration on a spell
Drop an item
Drop to the floor
Prepare spell components to cast a spell1
Make an announcement
1 If this action negatively affects the opposing side, it is considered hostile and has a negative penalty to Persuasion attempts (–2 circumstance penalty unless otherwise noted).

Free actions don’t take any time at all, though there may be limits to the number of free actions you can perform in a turn. Free actions rarely incur attacks of opportunity. Some common free actions are described below.

Capitulate to Persuasion

At any time during a social encounter, one side or the other may willinging agree to the opposing side’s attempt to Persuasion. Usually only beings whom are friendly, helpful or fanatical towards you will capitulate.
Capitulating to Torture: When a creature is reduced to ¼ of its hit points or less when tortured, it must make a Will save DC 20 to resist capitulating to the torture. A being who capitulates to Torture must truthfully answer its torturer’s questions.

Drop an Item

Dropping an item in your space or into an adjacent square is a free action.

Drop Prone

Dropping to a prone position in your space is a free action.

Cease Concentration on Spell

You can stop concentrating on an active spell as a free action.

Cast a Quickened Spell

You can cast a quickened spell (see the Quicken Spell feat) or any spell whose casting time is designated as a free action as a free action. Only one such spell can be cast in any round, and such spells don’t count toward your normal limit of one spell per round.
If you cast a spell that has a negative effect on the opposing side (such as Charm Person or Dominate), you apply a –5 modifier to Persuade checks.
If you cast a harmful spell on the opposing side (such as magic bolt), the social encounter ends immediately and combat begins.

Courtly Intrigue

The machinations of nations coil and twist within the many courts of a hundred nations. Power flows and ebbs as alliances are formed and secret pacts are entered into. This is the realm of courtly intrigue, and in many ways it is far more deadly than the battlefields of any combat. This is a war not for the mere survival of one – but for the future of hundreds.
It is entirely possible to run the intrigues of court as pure roleplaying. Players who are as charismatic as their character (or capable of being as crude as their characters) may well enjoy approaching this aspect from a purely roleplaying standpoint – and that is fine.
These rules, however, are for those DMs who wish to skim over some of the finer details and/or want the character’s skills and attributes to factor into the results. After all, few players have the ability to properly be as charming and influential as their 21 Charisma Bard.

Holding Court Basics

While most rulers are involved in some aspect of ruling every day of their career, these rules assume that a ruler “holding court” does so approximately once a month, and that such an occasion is attended by the majority of the nobility.
At least once a year, any person of the Upper class MUST attend court to swear an oath of fealty to the country’s ruler or rulers. This special court function can take many forms, but requires the presence of the ruling aristocracy. It is not uncommon for kingdoms of large size to hold this affair at different times for small groups of nobles, both to accommodate the schedules of large groups of people and to reduce the chance of schemes and plots from affecting a large number of the aristocracy at once.

Game Rules

An appearance at court is generally an extended social encounter, with multiple scenes. The Resolve DC can be modified as shown below.

Table 1: Condition
Influence
DC Mod
Low intrigue
–2
High intrigue
+2
Foreigner
+2
Not noble born
+2
Poor country
–2
Out of favor
+4

Low Intrigue: There are little or no secret plots among the courtiers. Courtiers tend to be frank and speak their mind. Most courtiers have about equal power and rarely polarize into groups or cliques.
Average Intrigue: This is the standard assumption for most courts. There are plays for political and social power and the courtiers tend to lump themselves in loose cliques. Certain courtiers hold more influence or power than others, though the overall difference tends to be slight.
High Intrigue: There are visible power blocs among the courtiers. Likewise, there is rampant plotting for power and spies are often employed among courtiers to assess the plans and motivations of others. Groups tend to polarize for who they support or oppose, and a shift in allegiance can cause enormous political upheaval or strife.
Foreigner: The character is not a native to the country in question or is not of the same race as the majority of the courtiers.
Not noble born: The character is not part of the nobility or aristocracy.
Poor country: The country has little political power or influence.
Out of Favor: The character has been exiled, excommunicated or is otherwise disliked at court.

Making Impressions

When a character first enters a court encounter, they should make a Persuade (Diplomacy) check, with a base DC of 15, modified by the Courtly Intrigue table.
If the character exceeds the court DC by 5 or more, they have made a positive impression in court, and have earned a friend or favor from someone at court. You may use the table below as a guideline for the final result.

Influence
DC exceeded by
Result
+5
Make a positive impression; add +2 to next Persuade (Diplomacy) check at court
+10
Small favor from minor noble worth 50 gp
+15
Minor favor from noble worth 100 gp
+20
Large favor from powerful noble worth 150 gp
+25
Favored by royalty; add +2 to next Persuade (Diplomacy) check at court and gain a favor to be granted by the crown worth 200 gp
Each +5 additional
Favored by royalty; add +4 to next Persuade (Diplomacy) check at court and gain a favor to be granted by the crown worth 250 gp, +50 gp per 5 points past +30

A character cannot be owed a favor worth more than 50 gp / character level at any one time. Once full up, a character cannot accumulate new favors until olds ones have been used up or the character gains additional levels.
If the character fails the initial DC 15 Persuade (Diplomacy) check by 10 or more, the character has commited a faux pax. The character is considered to be “out of favor” at all future court events. Unless the character’s presence is required at some future court function, the character will not be invited to return to court. Likewise, the character cannot gain the benefits of a positive impression until they atone for the faux pax or gain the support of another noble (usually by exceeding the Persuade (Diplomacy) check by 10 or more and using the small favor to clear their reputation).

Complex Court Skill Check

There may be occasions where attending court requires more than one Persuade (Diplomacy) check to successfully make one’s way through the halls of power. In areas of high intrigue, the power blocs may be divided into multiple factions, each of which must be addressed individually. Often, many of these power blocs are diametrically opposed, making it almost impossible for the character to appease both sides.
In the case of multiple power blocs, the character makes an intial Persuade (Diplomacy) check for his overall standing, then makes a separate Persuade (Diplomacy) check for each power bloc they approach. As before, the base DC is 15 to successfully address and mingle with members of the power bloc. The DC can be modified by other factors, as shown on Table 1 and below:

Table 3: Condition
DC mod
Power bloc is hostile toward another power bloc character has found favor with
+10
Power bloc dislikes another power bloc character has found favor with
+5
Power bloc is opposed to character’s morals (good vs. evil)
+2
Power bloc is opposed to character’s ethos (law vs. chaos)
+2
Character is favored by royalty
–4

Example

The Machiavellian politics of Vall Vega are quite convoluted. An individual arriving for court at Vall Vega faces several power blocs – first and foremost Emperor Romulus Bicard 3rd and his entourage; Semotan, the Emperor’s sorcerer and his apprentices; the nobles of Vall Vega (whom oppose Semotan); the Silkna Kingdom ambassador and his entourage (whom oppose the Emperor); the General of the Knights of the South and his entourage (whom oppose the nobles); and the Southern Kingdom ambassador (whom everyone else opposes).

Our hapless young knight 3/noble 1, Theurose, who enters this political scene, has a Charisma of 15 (+2 modifier) and a Persuade (Diplomacy) total of +9. His Persuasion deals 2d6+2 resolve damage. He has 30 resolve points.

With all the Vegan politics, the Influence DC is 17, DC 19 for non–nobles, and DC 21 for foreign visitors. This is definitely not the place for amateurs. Luckily, our vegan hero has noble blood.

Upon arriving at Vall Vega, our young knight is brought to the Emperor’s hall and announced

Theurose makes his initial Persuade (Diplomacy) check, rolling an 11, making his grand total 18. Thuerose enters the court, and few heads turn to even notice his appearance.

Obviously, the eyes of court are more tuned to watching for the knives behind everyone’s back.

Mingling with the crowd, Theurose finds a group of knights from the Knights of the South nearby discussing combat maneuvers.
As Theurose approaches, he enters a social encounter. He gains intiative and makes his Persuade (Diplomacy) check – rolling a 15, for a total of +26. This exceed the DC 17 by a total of 9 – enough to make a positive impression, but not enough to gain a favor from the knights. Being low–level knights, they only have 10 hit points each. Normally, Theurose would need to persuade each knight separately, but the GM decides that he will treat them as a single entity – Theurose only needs to beat one of them to win the encounter. Theurose rolls his damage, and rolls max – dealing 14 nonlethal damage to two of the knights, allowing him to win the social combat with ease.

As Theurose approaches the young knights, he manages to interject some his own combat knowledge into the conversation. A half hour later, he is regaling the Knights with tales of his combats against the skeletal forces of a necromancer he recently helped destroy.

Several of Semotan’s apprentices happen to be passing by when Theurose is finishing his tale about destroying the necromancer.

Theurose makes another Persuasion (Diplomacy) check to gauge their reaction. Since he is discussing putting a spellcaster to the sword, the GM chooses to increase the DC by +2. Further, unknown to Theurose, the apprentices are evil, which further increases the DC by another +2, for a total Influence DC of 21. Like the previous encounter, the GM decides to treat the apprentices as a single entity, instead of as individuals.

Amazingly, Theurose manages to roll a 16, giving him a grand total of +27. This exceeds the DC by 6, meaning that Theurose manages to, despite his tale, make a good impression with Semotan’s apprentices. Being apprentices, the wizards only have 2 hit points apiece. Theurose does a minimum of 4 nonlethal damage, so he easily wins the social encounter against them.

The apprentices listen to the tale of the knight. They quietly agree that the necromancer was a foolish Ice Mage, and keep Theurose’s name in mind – he might later be useful to Semotan in rooting out any wizardly opposition that crops up in the future.

Intrigued by the ruckus Theurose is making, the ambassador from Silkna Kingdom moves to greet Theurose.

Since Theurose hasn’t found particular favor with the Emperor, greeting the ambassador does not start with a penalty to his court check. However, the GM rules that since Theurose’s name sounds similar to the ancient lord Thuer, founder of the Silkna Kingdom, he lowers the DC of the check by –2. This puts the final Persuade (Diplomacy) DC at 15.

Making his Persuade (Diplomacy) check, Theurose’s player rolls a 8, with his modifier making it a +17. He succeed the check, but does not roll high enough to even make much of an impression. The ambassador has a hefty 27 hit points, and Theurose rolls a measly 4 points of nonlethal damage.
It is now the ambassador’s turn, and he makes a Persuade (Gather Information) check with a +16 modifier. to learn about Theurose’s background. He easily succeeds the roll, and the ambassador’s 8 ranks allows him to deal 2d6+3 nonlethal damage to Theurose. The ambassador gets a lucky roll that deals 14 nonlethal damage to Theurose’s hit point total, leaving him with 16 hit points.

The social encounter continues. Theuorose attempts to bluff the ambassador into thinking he has a distant relation to Theur, but with his measly +2 modifier, he fails the check. In return the ambassador continues his questioning with Persuade (Gather Information) and succeeds, dealing another 10 points to Theurose’s hit points. To add injury to insult, the ambassador uses Deceit (Sense Motive) and discerns Theurose is lying to him, and removes 1d6 nonlethal damage – 5 points in this case, putting him back up to full (the extra point is lost).

Trying to recover, Theurose attempts to use Persuade (Diplomacy) again to smooth over the matter. He succeeds, but deals little damage. When it is the ambassor’s turn, a simple Persuade (Gather Information) succeeds, and the last of Theurose’s resolve is lost, with the ambassador winning the social contest. Luckily, with the social encounter over, Theurose gets half his resolve back – in this case, he removes 15 points of nonlethal damage.
The Silkna ambassador makes a quick inquiry about Theurose’s name, but upon learning that he is a simple noble–born knight of Vall Vega, quickly grows disinterested and moves on.

As Theurose finishes up his tale, one of his friends approaches, a young Vegan noble named Beuord, whom he has not seen in the last year or so. Along with him is a young lady attached to his arm – obviously, he is escorting her.

Theurose excuses himself from the Knights to greet Beuord and learn more about his lovely companion.

Since Beuord and the young lady are radically different, the GM decides that Theurose must approach each separately, and Theurose decides to approach Beuord first. Luckily, though Theurose made a positive impression among Semotan’s apprentices, he is not favored by them, so he does not take a penalty to his Persuade (Diplomacy) check (since the nobles oppose Semotan). Since Theurose is actually a Vegan noble and knows Beuord, the GM decides to lower the DC by –4, giving a DC of 13. Theurose rolls a 15, managing a total of +26. This exceeds the roll by 13, granting Theurose a small favor. But now, future interactions with the Knights of the South will increase the Persuade (Diplomacy) DC by +10! Theurose rolls his resolve damage, dealing 10 points of nonlethal damage. Beuord, being Theurose’s friend, decides to capitulate to Theurose, allowing Theurose to automatically win the encounter against him.

Further, the young lady on Beuord’s arm is from the Southern Kingdom. Luckily, while just about everyone present at the court opposes the Southern Kingdom, those from the Southern Kingdom do not oppose any of the power factions at the party, so Theurose’s Influence DC against the young lady is a mere DC 17. Unfortunately, he rolls a 7, giving him a total of 16. The young lady, in return easily beats Theurose’s Influence DC and deals 10 points of nonlethal damage to Theurose.

On the next round, Theurose attempts to Persuade (Gather Information) to learn the lady’s name and to get her to open up to him, but fails to beat the DC 17 Influence check. On her turn, the young lady once again succeeds her check, dealing another 7 points to Theurose. This exceeds the resolve he had left, so the GM rules he fails to impress the young lady.

As Theurose approaches Beuord, the two greet each other heartily. Beuord is so happy to see Theurose that he promises to hold a party in the knight’s honor after the affairs of court end. Unfortunately, Theurose becomes so caught up in talking with Beuord that he seems to fail to notice the young lady until she loudly clears her throat. Apolgizing, Beuord introduces the young lady to Theurose as Marcessa, from the Southern Kingdom. However, before Theurose can ask any more, Marcessa demands that Beuord take her to eat, and that he may “catch up” with his old friend at a later time. Sheepishly, Beuord assents, and slightly disheartened, Theurose returns to the Knights, whom seem much less interested in Theurose’s tales than earlier. Having had his fill of the court for the night, Theurose decides it is time to leave, and perhaps later he can catch up with Beuord.

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IMO, exploration, like social interaction, does not need explicit rules.

If you need a resolution mechanic for specific uncertain situation, skill or ability checks work fine -- perhaps with a GM modifier based on the player's explanation. Perhaps, instead, based on the player's description of what they do, they either succeed or fail (which is how we rolled back before there were such things as skills and skill check).
 

ZombieRoboNinja

First Post
So, I think the goal here would be to take the basic concepts of skill challenges but not necessarily the 4e mechanics.

Here are some considerations:

1. Failing forward: A failed check should not mean death any more than a failed attack roll means death in combat. This means that there should be explicit consequences for each failed attempt at something (or for a certain number of failures at least).

2. Not just skill checks: Players should be encouraged to creatively use all their abilities, equipment, allies, and resources, not just find a way to stretch their highest skills into the current situation. This means the DM needs to know what sort of bonuses and penalties to give players for coming up with clever approaches (or trying stupid approaches).

3. Everyone participates: In 5e especially, you can't just punish the players with fewer explicit skills or exploration abilities by making them a lodestone in every exploration encounter. However, a combat metaphor might be useful here: certain characters are more vulnerable in an exploration challenge and need to be protected (just like the wizard needs to be protected in combat). This means there should be explicit mechanisms for helping an ally avoid danger.

I think one thing 4e got right here was tracking successes vs. failures. In a stealth encounter, the plate-wearing dwarf should be focused more on avoiding failures, since he probably won't be good enough to get many successes.

Here are some possible guidelines:
Designing an Exploration Challenge

1. Decide how many successes the group needs and how many failures they can get away with before they fail utterly. (There should be a chart to estimate this for an easy, medium, or tough challenge.)

2. Decide what the waypoints are towards success or failure. (For example, in an "Infiltrate the Castle" encounter each success might take one PC past one of the two guard towers, and each failure might heighten the guards' alertness until they finally sound the alarm).

3. Set the base DCs for likely checks. (In our example, that would be the DC to sneak past the guard, wheedle your way in, create a distraction, etc.)

4. Know guidelines for how to give bonuses or penalties (or automatic success or failure) for innovative approaches. (In our example, a warlock might use an invocation to simply walk through the castle wall, granting him an automatic success. Or the ranger might use a grappling hook to give him Advantage on a Climb check over the wall. Or the barbarian might try to bluster his way in dressed in drag, taking Disadvantage on his Bluff check for his silly approach.)

Is this crunchy enough for Kamikaze Midget? I'm not sure. One key would be padding out #4 above. It'll be important that players are encouraged to be very specific in their approaches. I'm also not sure Advantage and Disadvantage is granular enough.
 

Blackbrrd

First Post
Now, I really don't like the skill challenge as written in 4e. It's more or less just roll x skills and hope you succeed. What they do give is a framework for creating challenges that uses skills in a more complex way to decide the outcome. What makes me feel it's not particularily good is the more or less scripted binary outcomes.

To me skill challenges can be fun, but then you have to run them more like you would run combat. Give the players a challenge, for instance: impress some dwarves so they will let you enter their domain. Give some options on how to do it: (obvious) help them repair a winch; (unlockable through making some small talk) help them investigate missing items.

Some of my players wanted to help out with the winch and convinced the dwarves that they could do it. Now, that wasn't strictly true since only one character had the appropriate skills and didn't roll well. One of the other characters took it on himself convincing the dwarves that this was actually all intentional so they would give them enough time to actually fix it. The fun part was that the talking player made several good rolls and made convincing points to let the fumbling player doing the work actually get his :):):):) together. There was nothing about "extending" the skill challenge in the rules, but I think it was a great solution by the player to get the challenge done.

I think skill challenges can be fun and interesting, but you have to integrate them tightly with the role playing or they just become a set of random rolls. My players really loved how this turned out and we spent most of the session in character, role playing, much more so than we usually do when there is a lot of combat.

What I would do is to make something looking a bit like a 4e skill challenge with many small problems that need to be solved with multiple approaches to the them and some possible outcomes and let role playing take care of the rest.

Maybe the thing the characters want to do is to enter a fortified city and then the keep without fighting their way through the front gates. There are a lot of ways to make this task easier and multiple ways of actually getting in. Maybe they befriend some farmers and smuggle along in the hay? Can they bribe the guards? After getting into the city, might there be some back doors that you can get a bribed guard to open for you? How do you find the bribeable guard? You don't want to just find a random one and try to bribe him. You might need to stalk some of the guards off duty to find the typical tavern they stay at.

Make the task complex enough that failed rolls don't end up collapsing the whole thing and let the players find ways to "fix" the situation if it's going badly. For instance if you rolled badly on the sense motive check and ended up trying to bribe the wrong guard? One way of "fixing" the problem might be to knock him out, drag him out of sight, force him to drink a lot of spirits and pull his pants off and drop him off outside the gates to be found with his pants down, unconscious and reeking of alcohol.

For something like this to work the DM needs to prepare well before the session, with multiple NPC's, obstacles, reactions and such planned in advance and some quick thinking when the players find a totally different approach. There is in my eyes nothing wrong with having a combat or two in the middle of a big skill challenge as the one I described here.
 

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