Extend with Vigor

[Cintra]

IIRC, the orignal wording of the Vigor spells made no mention of a maximum duration, but when reprinted in the SC, they specifically put that in to address the qualms some had of Extended Vigor. Part of the reasoning, I believe, was that wands of Extended Vigor were SO much better than wands of Cure Moderate Wounds, outside of combat. Your "hp/gp" ratio for non-combat healing was way off when using wands/scrolls like this.

The logic of this argument falls apart, for me, because there's no reason whatsoever for anyone to buy and use wands of Cure Moderate Wounds for out-of-combat situations. If another combat is imminent, sure (and Vigor et.al. wouldn't be fast enough anyway). Any other time, you'd use wands of Cure Light Wounds for half the healing at a sixth of the cost. By this logic, using a wand of Extended Lesser Vigor at 5th level (for the 30 round duration) would result in 30 pts healing vs. average of 5 from 1d8+1, so 6 times the healing, for (2*5*750 vs. 1*1*750) TEN times the cost. Extended Vigor spells that double the maximum duration just aren't a problem - if you're willing to ignore the "wisdom" of the FAQ.

 

[Twowolves]

The logic of this argument falls apart, for me, because there's no reason whatsoever for anyone to buy and use wands of Cure Moderate Wounds for out-of-combat situations. If another combat is imminent, sure (and Vigor et.al. wouldn't be fast enough anyway). Any other time, you'd use wands of Cure Light Wounds for half the healing at a sixth of the cost. By this logic, using a wand of Extended Lesser Vigor at 5th level (for the 30 round duration) would result in 30 pts healing vs. average of 5 from 1d8+1, so 6 times the healing, for (2*5*750 vs. 1*1*750) TEN times the cost. Extended Vigor spells that double the maximum duration just aren't a problem - if you're willing to ignore the "wisdom" of the FAQ.

You are comparing a wand with a 1st level spell, caster level 1 to a wand with a 2nd level spell, caster level 5? Apples and oranges.

Wand of Extended Lesser Vigor: Caster Level 3*Spell Level 2*750 =4500gp and heals 1300 hp (26*50).

Wand of Cure Moderate Wounds: Caster Level 3*Spell Level 2*750 =4500 and heals 250-950hp, averaging 600hp.

Same price, over twice the healing. Even without the metamagic, a CL1 wand of Lesser Vigor will heal 550hp while a CL1 wand of Cure Light Wounds will heal 100-450hp. The Lesser Vigor, for the same price, heals twice as much damage guaranteed as the CLW will on average.

Is my math correct, or is the cold medicine I'm taking doing odd things to my brain?

 

[Bagpuss]

You are comparing a wand with a 1st level spell, caster level 1 to a wand with a 2nd level spell, caster level 5? Apples and oranges.

Wand of Extended Lesser Vigor: Caster Level 3*Spell Level 2*750 =4500gp and heals 1300 hp (26*50).

Wand of Cure Moderate Wounds: Caster Level 3*Spell Level 2*750 =4500 and heals 250-950hp, averaging 600hp.

Same price, over twice the healing.

Actually wouldn't you take 6 Wands of Cure Light for that money (Caster level 1 * Spell level 1 * 750) and heals 600-2700 on averaging 1650 hp.

Same price even more healing than the Extended Lesser Vigor. Extended Vigor isn't a problem if you are talking gp for hp.

Oh and maximum duration was in Complete Divine, before the spell compendium.

 

[Andras]

A limit to the healing also puts the kibosh on Persisted Vigor series.

 

[Bront]

A limit to the healing also puts the kibosh on Persisted Vigor series.

That is true, but that doesn't mean anything about the extend.

What you're trading is immediate healing vs long term healing. The cure moderates and beyond are better at healing immediately, but even high level groups will carey a cure light wound wand on them because the cost per spell of healing with the wand is incredably low, and out of combat, it's not an issue.

So, given that, I don't have any problem with allowing it to double the max duration.

Also, the FAQ has been known to be answered in contridictory manors. It's Erata that you look to for diffinitive answers.

Ultimately, ask your GM. It's his call.

 

[Question]

I think its perfectly fair for it ot double max duration as well. The drawback vs cure X spells is you need time for it to work, which is usually not the case in battles.

 

[boolean]

A limit to the healing also puts the kibosh on Persisted Vigor series.

IIRC, the next entry in the FAQ says that Persistent Spell and Mass Lesser Vigor works. (Lesser Vigor doesn't work because you can't use Persistent with touch spells.)

I think the reasoning is that Persistent doesn't modify the existing duration, it replaces it completely. The duration of Lesser Vigor is "10 rounds + 1 round/level (max 15 rounds)". Persistent Spell erases the entire Duration entry and replaces it with "Duration: 24 hours".

 

[Bront]

IIRC, the next entry in the FAQ says that Persistent Spell and Mass Lesser Vigor works. (Lesser Vigor doesn't work because you can't use Persistent with touch spells.)

I think the reasoning is that Persistent doesn't modify the existing duration, it replaces it completely. The duration of Lesser Vigor is "10 rounds + 1 round/level (max 15 rounds)". Persistent Spell erases the entire Duration entry and replaces it with "Duration: 24 hours".

That sounds like it is contradictory to the previous ruling then (which isn't supprising, the same people don't answer the FAQ over the years)