Extra Spell

[takasi]

A buddy and I were debating Extra Spell. He wants to be able to add Wraithstrike to his duskblade. According to the FAQ:

"Extra Spell lets you add one spell to your list of spells known, but the spell must be taken from your class spell list."

My friend says this contradicts the wording of the feat. What is your opinion? Here are my thoughts:

"You learn one additional spell at any level up to one lower than the highest level of spell you can currently cast."

This does not say you can learn a spell from outside of your class list. This text limits the highest level of the new spell.

"Thus a 4th level sorcerer (maximum spell level 2nd) gains a new 0-level or 1st-level spell known with which to expand her repertoire."

This does not say you can learn a spell from outside of your class list. This text provides an example of the level limitations of the first statement.

"For classes such as wizard that have more options for learning spells, Extra Spell is generally used to learn a specific spell that the character lacks access to and would be unable to research."

This does not say you can learn a spell from outisde of your class list.

"Lacks access to" may be misleading text here. There are spells on your class list that you may "lack access to". A wizard, for example, only automatically learns a specific number of spells. In order to learn additional spells he must find a scroll, spellbook or someone to teach him. If he does not have access to these things he would not be able to learn the spell.

"Unable to research" may also be misleading, but there are requirements for research: time and money. If you have neither than taking this feat would allow you to access a spell without paying for either.

For spontaneous casters that cannot learn spells this is an excellent feat to expand their repertoire.

Nothing in the description of the feat indicates you can learn a spell that is not in your class list and the FAQ reinforces this absence. If you allow the duskblade to take wraithstrike with this feat you might as well let a wizard learn heal spells or a cleric learn fireball.

 

[Infiniti2000]

I voted 'yes' because that's what I think the rules say. However, this creates problems when you consider slow progression classes. If you actually allow 'yes' then a wizard with this feat could take irresistible dance as a 6th level spell because it's 6th level on the bard list. There are undoubtedly other choices that are just as bad. Swapping some spells will not be terrible, but be very careful about what you allow.

 

[takasi]

I voted 'yes' because that's what I think the rules say.

Why do you think this? Which words say this?

 

[Andre]

A buddy and I were debating Extra Spell. He wants to be able to add Wraithstrike to his duskblade. According to the FAQ:

"Extra Spell lets you add one spell to your list of spells known, but the spell must be taken from your class spell list."

My friend says this contradicts the wording of the feat. What is your opinion?

That sentence doesn't contradict the wording of the feat, it clarifies it. If the feat allowed a caster to take spells from another class' spell list, it should say so explicitly.

That said, allowing the feat to be used for cross-class spells doesn't have to be unbalancing, but a GM would have to evaluate it on a case-by-case basis and the player would have to be willing to change spells at a later date if things became unbalanced (meaning not fun to the group as a whole).

 

[Thanee]

No, because it doesn't. It neither says so, nor do the rules allow it (well, they don't actually say anything about this, but they do not allow you to cast these spells, so it would be pointless to learn them), nor can it be intended to do so.

So, just no.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Thanee]

My friend says this contradicts the wording of the feat. What is your opinion?

My opinion is, that it contradicts what your friend wants.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Deset Gled]

That sentence doesn't contradict the wording of the feat, it clarifies it.

I concur. Normally, I'm all for jumping on the FAQ when it screw up. But it this case, it's just clarifying, which is exactly what it's supposed to do.

Another case similar to this one is a Mystic Theurge spontaneously converting spells to Cure spells. In the Cleric class description, it states that any prepared spell can be swapped for a cure spell. Does this mean that a MT (Wiz/Clr mix) can convert their arcane spells to divine ones (or, does it allow them to cast arcane healing spells)? I say no, because the text in the Cleric class description is implicitly limited to spells granted by the Cleric class.

 

[Ilium]

If you need a supporting point, ask this question: When you want to add Charm Monster to your duskblade's list, what level is it? It could be 3rd (as on the bard list) or 4th (as on the Sor/Wiz list). Since the feat doesn't specify it supports the idea that the designers never intended you to do such a thing.

Note, I don't think this spell is on the duskblade list, but you get the idea, regardless.

 

[shilsen]

My opinion is, that it contradicts what your friend wants.

Bye
Thanee

I think that's it

BTW, also ask your friend to think carefully about wanting wraithstrike to actually be available in the game. Has he ever considered what a dragon with wraithstrike can do?

 

[rgard]

I concur. Normally, I'm all for jumping on the FAQ when it screw up. But it this case, it's just clarifying, which is exactly what it's supposed to do.

Another case similar to this one is a Mystic Theurge spontaneously converting spells to Cure spells. In the Cleric class description, it states that any prepared spell can be swapped for a cure spell. Does this mean that a MT (Wiz/Clr mix) can convert their arcane spells to divine ones (or, does it allow them to cast arcane healing spells)? I say no, because the text in the Cleric class description is implicitly limited to spells granted by the Cleric class.

Hadn't thought of that one, but as my Ur Priest, Wizard, MT doesn't spontaneously cure anything...I love that combo!