Faerie Fire & Hide in Plain Site

[Piratecat]

If you're wearing a neon-orange polyester jump suit and turn invisible, nobody can see you.

**ding dong**

Citizen Hype-O-SMF-5, the Mark 49-B-Invisocollapsilator is Security Clearance Indigo. According to extremely accurate personnel records, you are Security Clearance Orange. Please report to the nearest Termination Center to explain to Friend Computer whether you prefer mutant powers or treasonous technology for your traitorous invisibility needs. This confession process will be totally safe and fun for your entire troubleshooter team.

Thank you, and have a nice daycycle.

**ding dong**

 

[lottrbacchus]

Hmmm. I think the glowing outline hides with you. FF counters Invis, et al, because you otherwise wouldn't be hidden, just magically hard to pinpoint. Hidden isn't Invisible or Blurred or Dis[laced; it is Hidden.

**ding dong**

Citizen Hype-O-SMF-5, the Mark 49-B-Invisocollapsilator is Security Clearance Indigo. According to extremely accurate personnel records, you are Security Clearance Orange. Please report to the nearest Termination Center to explain to Friend Computer whether you prefer mutant powers or treasonous technology for your traitorous invisibility needs. This confession process will be totally safe and fun for your entire troubleshooter team.

Thank you, and have a nice daycycle.

**ding dong**

Feeling a bit of Paranoia, Piratecat? I get that a bit myself around here.

 

[lottrbacchus]

Please note: FF isn't bright enough to overcome the pre-condition of HIPS: being within 10' of a shadow other than yours. If you had Daylight cast on you, HIPS wouldn't work (unless there was a lightsource brighter than full daylight!!!); but since FF wouldn't dispell the nearby shadow that you are hiding NEAR (not IN), why would FF disallow you from HIPS?

 

[Hypersmurf]

Please note: FF isn't bright enough to overcome the pre-condition of HIPS: being within 10' of a shadow other than yours. If you had Daylight cast on you, HIPS wouldn't work (unless there was a lightsource brighter than full daylight!!!); but since FF wouldn't dispell the nearby shadow that you are hiding NEAR (not IN), why would FF disallow you from HIPS?

It doesn't prevent you hiding. But when you hide, does it conceal the illumination the Faerie Fire provides?

-Hyp.

 

[lottrbacchus]

It doesn't prevent you hiding. But when you hide, does it conceal the illumination the Faerie Fire provides?

-Hyp.

I'm inclined to say yes. But I'm also inclined to say that trying to hide with that level (5' radius, dim) of illumination would give you a -2 (and willing to listen to other ideas on this exact number) to your HIPS roll.

Oh- Hypersmurf or any other long-time poster that would otherwise reply to the above (and so as not to hijack this thread)- would posting a question about a Bloodline fix proposal go in this exact forum or somewhere else?

 

[Hypersmurf]

Oh- Hypersmurf or any other long-time poster that would otherwise reply to the above (and so as not to hijack this thread)- would posting a question about a Bloodline fix proposal go in this exact forum or somewhere else?

If it's a question about how the Bloodline works, here.

If it's "I know the book says X, but I think Y would be better - thoughts?", then House Rules.

-Hyp.

 

[lottrbacchus]

If it's a question about how the Bloodline works, here.

If it's "I know the book says X, but I think Y would be better - thoughts?", then House Rules.

-Hyp.

Cool, thanks. I look forward to posting over there and seeing what you think. But that is for tomorrow or tuesday.

Meanwhile, what do you think of the FF proposal, where you do effectively conceal the illimumination but with a minus to your HIPS (that is, the character can try to HIPS while FF'd, but with a modest minus)?

 

[Markn]

Meanwhile, what do you think of the FF proposal, where you do effectively conceal the illimumination but with a minus to your HIPS (that is, the character can try to HIPS while FF'd, but with a modest minus)?

This goes along with my lines of reasoning. I thought that this would make the most sense. The question then becomes, what should that penalty be? The spell Glitterdust specifically states a hide penalty and has some similarities to FF but also functions quite a bit different. FF, meanwhile does not list a hide penalty. So maybe, there shouldn't be any at all?

At any rate, I can see both sides of the argument. Hype's line of reasoning makes sense, but then again so does lottrbacchus. I think that if you can successfully hide you are able to "hide" the light as well. If you throw a sheet over yourself so that you cover the FF, can you hide then? If so, it would seem perposterous since a dude with a sheet on stands out like a sore thumb and isn't that just as ludicrous as hiding with FF on you? Either way it seems like you can still hide. Hide places no distinction in any way, shape or form. For example, a Lantern Archon is effectively a ball of light. Does that mean it is impossible for them to hide? Absolutely not. Give a Lantern Archon some Rogue levels and they can still hide with the best of them. Even without the rogue levels they can still make hide attempts. Furthermore, hide, or perhaps HiPS more specifically does not list any caveat about the hiding person being unable to hide if they have a light source but are still within 10' of a shadow. It would then seem that hiding should be allowable regardless of circumstances as long as all prereqs are met for HiPS.

 

[Hypersmurf]

For example, a Lantern Archon is effectively a ball of light. Does that mean it is impossible for them to hide?

A Lantern Archon is a ball of light that glows as brightly as a torch.

If it turns invisible, we can still see a ball-shaped torch-bright glow coming from the archon's position, since while the source can turn invisible, the light cannot.

If the Archon hides behind a chair, we can't see the ball... but we can still see that light is being shed in a 20 foot radius by something behind the chair.

----

Out of curiosity, if a person with HiPS can hide whatever illumination they possess, does that illumination then become unavailable for their own sight?

For example, we have a first level Shadowdancer holding a candle in an underground cave. The candle provides shadowy illumination, so the Shadowdancer is within ten feet of a shadow - he Hides in Plain Sight. If his candle is thereby hidden, is it now pitch black? Since he doesn't gain darkvision 'til 2nd level, is he effectively blind? Since there are now no shadows, only blackness, is he in fact still able to Hide in Plain Sight?

-Hyp.

 

[Zurai]

Furthermore, hide, or perhaps HiPS more specifically does not list any caveat about the hiding person being unable to hide if they have a light source but are still within 10' of a shadow.

I don't know why people are so fixated on the "within 10' of a shadow" thing. Only one version of HIPS (the shadowdancer/dark creature template version) has that restriction. The ranger/scout version is just "in any kind of natural terrain", for example.

It doesn't really change things, but I'm detail-oriented, so it bugs me