D&D 5E Falchion & Finesse?

[Paul Farquhar]

Why in the world would a Falchion be a two-handed weapon?

Anime?

I think the two handed falchion was a 3rd edition thing, where they tried to include as many different weapons as possible, then came up with contrived ways to make them different from each other.

I noticed playing Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous the glaringly oversize falchions.

Cloud Strife wants his buster sword back!

IMO, the PHB was right to include them in Longsword (should be called genericsword).

 

[humble minion]

I’d certainly allow a 1d10 damage, two-handed finesse weapon in the game. I’d probably call it a nagimaki rather than a falchion though - the word ‘falchion’ in D&D just carried too much baggage, as the 9 years of this thread would attest.

 

[Azzy]

Huh. I don't see historical falchions being either versatile or finesse.

 

[Cap'n Kobold]

Wait, why? The precision of a two-handed sword isn’t less than that of a short sword, it’s greater!

I mean sure we have to then think about why we are even attacking with strength rather than getting bonus damage from it or something, but still.

Anyway I made a “dueling glaive” that’s identical to the glaive but finesse, and a spiked chain that is versatile d6, normal d4, reach. Basically adding adding versatile to the whip.

I also allow greatsword users to spend a bonus action to gain reach until they make an attack within 5 feet, leave combat, or go back to non-reach (no action).

Whoa. Blast from the past.

I regard Finesse as incompatible with a two-handed grip being required or an improvement, because the entire point of putting two hands on a handle or haft is to improve the leverage and force you can exert on the weapon. A finesse weapon does not require the speed, control, and power provided by strength through that leverage by definition, because it uses just the grace and balance of its wielder rather than power and athleticism.

I think a lot of that idea might come from watching practitioners whipping a weapon through display flourishes/kata rather than use in an actual fight. Combined with the misapprehension (possibly powered by D&D rules optimisation logic and opposed to real life) that martial artists are not strong.

 

[DEFCON 1]

There are two separate issues here regarding this issue, and the big question you need to ask yourself when determining whether something like this should be added to your game is exactly why you would want a Two-Handed Finesse weapon like a 'Falchion'.

The first reason of course is aesthetics. Whether you think agile characters should use weapons two-handed in the fiction, whether the name 'falchion' is the appropriate choice for this type of weapon, whether curved blades should have a two-handed version, etc. These are all just flavor choices and decisions and really only matter to your personal taste and the tastes of your players who wish to use them.

The second reason is mechanics. What does a Two-Handed Finesse weapon serve in the game mechanically, and why should it be added? And this is where the answer is simple-- the only mechanical reason to have a Two-Handed Finesse weapon in the game is to give high-Dexterity characters a weapon that does more damage than the best Finesse weapon in the game currently, the Rapier.

If you are a DEX-fighter or a Rogue and all you care about is a different stylistic choice for a 1d8 Martial Finesse weapon than the Rapier... you can just use the Rapier stats and refluff it to look like a different weapon all you want. That doesn't matter at all. You want your elf's 1d8 Martial Finesse weapon to have a curved blade because it's more "elf-like" and you have a thing for those blades you saw in the Lords of the Rings movies? Then use the Rapier and call it and describe it whatever way you want.

But my guess is that anyone who is looking for a Two-Handed Finesse weapon is because they are looking for a mechanical bonus above and beyond what they can get with the Rapier. Maybe they want a higher damage die? Maybe they want Reach? Maybe they want the Heavy property so that they can use the Great Weapon Master feat as a DEX-based character or a Rogue that can add Sneak Attack damage to it as well? For all those players... you as a DM have to decide just how much extra damage or stuff you are wiling to give to the DEX-based warrior or Rogue in your group. Maybe the extra point of damage by a higher weapon die doesn't really impact things at your table? In which case, then go ahead. But if you suspect your Rogue player is a min-maxer who indeed is looking for a way to combine Sneak Attack and GWM into a massive damage-dealer above and beyond the others in your group... then you probably should say no.

Me personally? I actually have removed Rapier from my games and instead have made Longsword a Finesse weapon. My reason of course being that Elves in the 2014E book were given longsword proficiency as an elvish racial feature, but no elf would ever actually ever want to use it because they were normally a DEX-based race. So by making Longswords Finesse there was now a reason why elves would have that proficiency and actually make use of it. And of course the kicker to this is that because the Longsword is Versatile, DEX-based characters and Rogues now got to have their higher-damage two-handed Finesse weapon-- 1d10 when using the longsword in two hands. The result? Nothing actually changed-- any melee rogues that got made still went with two-weapon fighting instead. So even the damage die bump from the Versatile property didn't matter to the players at all, they still preferred the two attacks for better Sneak Attack opportunities. Which leads me to guess that a Two-Handed 1d10 Martial Finesse weapon is probably not any sort of actual problem because who knows if any DEX-based character would still even want it necessarily.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Whoa. Blast from the past.

I regard Finesse as incompatible with a two-handed grip being required or an improvement, because the entire point of putting two hands on a handle or haft is to improve the leverage and force you can exert on the weapon. A finesse weapon does not require the speed, control, and power provided by strength through that leverage by definition, because it uses just the grace and balance of its wielder rather than power and athleticism.

I think a lot of that idea might come from watching practitioners whipping a weapon through display flourishes/kata rather than use in an actual fight. Combined with the misapprehension (possibly powered by D&D rules optimisation logic and opposed to real life) that martial artists are not strong.

Lol yeah I forgot it was a necro thread.

And fair enough, media can Mrs with all sorts of perceptions.