D&D 5E Falchion & Finesse?

[Stattick]

There are weapons called a falchion which are very similar to some forms of the scimitar, that are similar to a slightly longer version of the sabre. If that's what you're talking about, I see no problem with having it do a d8, and being finessable. At that point, you've merely refluffed the rapier. On the other hand, if you're talking about the hacking version of the falchion, which looks more like a machete, I wouldn't call it finessable.

As to two handed weapons, I don't think I'd allow one that's finessable. Perhaps I'd allow a hand-and-a-half weapon to be finessable though. Add some length to a sabre style scimitar like weapon, add a longer hilt, call it versatile, and have it do a d8/d10.

 

[auburn2]

* two-handed weapons can benefit from the great-weapon fighter ability.

The weapon has to have the heavy property to benefit from GWM.

 

[Azzy]

In D&D, the falchion has always been described as a two-handed scimitar, evocative of the weapon used by the Cairo Swordsman that Indy shoots in Raiders of the Lost Ark.

No, that started in 3e. Previous to that, it was described like its historical counterpart.

 

[tetrasodium]

Since this thread got necro'd I got curious & decided to look for a video with details & was pretty surprised at this 5 part series that gets into some really interesting differences between falchion & messer swords, details of the swords thenselves, & even a mention+graphic of the 3.5 falchion. Since the videos were put out quite a few years after most of this thread it's worth noting

 

[Laurefindel]

mmm.

Rapier 25 gp 1d8 piercing 2 lb. Finesse
Falchion 75 gp 2d4 slashing 4 lb. Finesse, heavy, two-handed

It doesn't look unbalanced on the face of it tbh.

Such a falchion would enable a dex-based, -5/+10 damage (with GWM) sneak attack that re-rolls all 1s and 2s (with GWF style). ouch.

it does raise some red flags IMO

 

[Quickleaf]

D&D is notoriously goofy about modeling historical weapons, but there's an insightful video on a "type 2" falchion (based on the typology in The Sword: Form and Thought) from Roland Warzecha:

It weighs just over 2.5 lbs (as a recreation), the sharp edge is the opposite of what you'd expect, and the protrusion at the tip seems to be useful to intercept sword attacks and facilitate binding or counterattacks. Then again, some of the historical pictures he shares seem to show falchions being used in two hands or resting against the shoulder (which IIRC is a very two-handed longsword "rest/ready" position).

There's definitely an argument to be made that it's not just a brute cleaver.

 

[tetrasodium]

D&D is notoriously goofy about modeling historical weapons, but there's an insightful video on a "type 2" falchion (based on the typology in The Sword: Form and Thought) from Roland Warzecha:
It weighs just over 2.5 lbs (as a recreation), the sharp edge is the opposite of what you'd expect, and the protrusion at the tip seems to be useful to intercept sword attacks and facilitate binding or counterattacks. Then again, some of the historical pictures he shares seem to show falchions being used in two hands or resting against the shoulder (which IIRC is a very two-handed longsword "rest/ready" position).

There's definitely an argument to be made that it's not just a brute cleaver.

Spoiler: Elmslie Topology

Almost sounds like type 1b-3a maybe 3b falchions & messers might give an AC bonus.

 

[Cap'n Kobold]

As far as I'm aware, falchions were thin, broad weapons, designed to have a narrower, sharper edge than more conventionally-shaped swords. I'd guess that they were designed as "anti-peasant" weapons: mostly ineffective against metal armour, but excellent at cutting through the padded/layered linen armour used by those who didn't have metal armour.
Further guessing would be that the "clipped front" design of some would be a way of creating a robust spike from the thicker spine of the weapon for stabbing at heavier armours.

Use D&D longsword stats. Or scimitar if you want a finessable version.

 

[Sjappo]

For my own home-brew campaign situated in a fantasy wild west I looked at trends in the weapons table.

• finesse weapons top out at 1d8 with the rapier.
• light finesse weapons top out at 1d6 with the short sword and scimitar
• versatile weapons top out at 1d10 with various weapons, but are neither light nor finesse

So any non light weapon that tops at 1d8/2d4 can be given finesse without impact. Finesse and light if it is 1d6.
I think a non light 1d10 finesse versatile or 2-handed weapon would be fine. It gives the option of GWF but at the exclusion of a shield or 2nd hand weapon. Which is an interesting trade-off. Even heavy would be fine, opening up GWM. GWM and sneak attack bite each other as the greater base damage from a sneak attack makes the GWM attack with its -5 less attractive.

The only beef I have with this is that it takes some toys from STR fighters and gives them to DEX fighters as well. DEX has enough toys as it is.

I found way around this by making most weapons finesse and giving them different stats depending on how you use it, bumping the damage for STR users. My boar spear is finesse; 2-handed DEX 1d8, 1-handed STR 1d8 and 2-handed STR 1d10 reach. A tomahawk would be 1-handed, thrown and light; DEX 1d4, STR 1d6.

 

[Charlaquin]

Since this thread got necro'd I got curious & decided to look for a video with details & was pretty surprised at this 5 part series that gets into some really interesting differences between falchion & messer swords, details of the swords thenselves, & even a mention+graphic of the 3.5 falchion. Since the videos were put out quite a few years after most of this thread it's worth noting

I’m not a huge fan of Shad, but that video series was excellent. His absolute best work, if you ask me.

Yeah, falchions and Messers are the exact same swords with different hilt construction (likely for legal purposes, so knife makers guilds could get in on selling them). They have a whole typology much like the Okashott typology for knightly swords, but all varieties had very thin blades, and were surprisingly light. Probably extremely effective at cutting through flesh and textile armor, but probably much less effective against metal armor, which suggests an anti-peasant weapon.

All of this points to finesse to me. As a light, superior cutter that struggles against metal armor, in D&D terms I would think its use would be more about Dexterity and finding a gap in the opponent’s armor than Strength and overwhelming their defense. In fact, I think the scimitar stats already cover a one-handed falschion or messer quite well. I’d just change the name to curved sword or backsword and have it cover all manner of such light cutting blades. Maybe add a versatile 1d6/2d4 finesse slashing weapon to cover kriegsmessers, katanas, and other such curved cutting blades with longer hilts, and call it a long backsword.