Falling Paladins

[Parlan]

I had a paladin fall.

It led to friction b/n myself and the DM, since I disagreed w/ his reasons for having me fall. Essentially, I failed a Will Save, was affected by hallucinegetic (sp?) gas, and whigged out. Thought a party member was a liche, and hit him with my sword. Didn't kill him.

Blam! I was done.

The party immediately went on a quest to restore palladin status, and was successful, but it was *very* close.

The DM and I have talked it over since, and no hard feelings remain.

Nevertheless, at the time I was pretty bumed b/c I thought I was exemplifying a noble, LG character, and still fell for reasons beyond my control. I was surprised at how much falling pissed me off b/c I'm usually pretty laid back. I think b/c it totally wrecks the character concept. I confess, if he hadn't regained pally status quickly I would've prolly dropped him and asked to bring in a new character.


So I would be *very* hesitant to cause a pally to fall unless the player brought it on himself by choosing (of free will) to do bad stuff.

 

[William drake]

Seems like an annoying thing to go through as a player. From an rp-perspective, it seems like it'd be pretty cool and interesting. Mechanics-wise though, I'd imagine it be pretty annoying and it'd be worse the longer it runs. And unless redemption is that easily attained (which really does cheapen it), it's going to be a while. Unless they go Blackguard, I guess.

Not so, in one game I ran I had a paladin fail, and it was a great game. The paladin became a fighter for a time to fix what'd happened...but then afterwards, he realized that gods, if they exist are beyond mortals, and so he became a lord of a local area...and lived out his life taking care of the things he could see, smell, taste, and touch in hopes that if one day, when he dies, he will be granted eternal rest from those who are supposed to be the All Knowning beings, and if not...then like Conan said "to the hell with you"

 

[William drake]

I played a paladin who fell and then redeemed himself. It wasn't the most dramatic of falls. He simply woke up one day to find he no longer had his abilities. It was lots of little things that just built up to him losing his paladin status. The DM had me make a list of all of the reasons that I felt caused me to lose my paladinhood; it turned out my list was a lot longer than his!

In the end, my character was praying for the soul of a recently-slain loved one in a ruined temple to his god (this was wartime, and the city had just been retaken from the enemy). He was approached by a priest who started a deep, soul-searching conversation with the character about love and duty and faith. In the end, the priest revealed that he was the ghost of the priest whose temple my character was praying in, and he was sent by their god as a final test. He then handed my character the holy avenger (only one if its kind; this was a super low-magic world) that he had quested for and failed to find.

His paladinhood restored, my character arose the next morning and led his army into battle against the big bad and his forces of evil. The clouds parted and a single ray of sunlight shone down upon my character. He died in single combat against the big bad, but did enough damage to him and his troops to cause them to retreat for good. The last scene of the game involved my character appearing in the feast hall of his god, where he was given a place of honor for all eternity.

Saw it coming, but its nice.

 

[Firedancer]

I DM'd a game where the player had decided he was a fallen paladin. He failed a task from the church, all his compatriots dead and him scared for life.

He then spent his next 5 levels being a very angry warrior, convinced he was damned. The storyline evolved with him and his interactions with npc and the other Pcs. We had started out leaving the evolution open to game experience.

The ex-paladin was fortunate that one of the other Pcs was a priest with renewal as a domain; he discussed rebirth and second chances with the paladin. The goodly deeds of the monk also led him away from his hate filled drinking and gambling and by 8th level he started to look outwards and make amends for his actions.

It was a good and involved piece of roleplaying.

One of the interesting aspects for all of us was the player was willing to go either way. When the going got dark in base of a cult he was swinging the sword quick and easy, taking no prisoners, getting more into his hate. He would have embraced this and ended up evil if the other party members hadn't stopped, looked back at the carnage and sobered up. Prisoners were taking and the resulting information led to more arrests; a reward for their actions, and a glimmer of hope for the paladin.

This was at the players behest. If I had another player starting as a paladin and take unworthy actions I would warn them (the character has received years of instruction, the player has not) that they are not meeting my standards, and discuss where they want to go. A failed save would not cause a paladin to fall. It should cause some roleplaying to make amends and improve themselves.

I do know of a player retiring their paladin after being confused they almost slew a compatriot (and the player wanted to try something different).

 

[BadMojo]

He then spent his next 5 levels being a very angry warrior, convinced he was damned. The storyline evolved with him and his interactions with npc and the other Pcs. We had started out leaving the evolution open to game experience.

Oh...that sounds awesome. I need to put "fallen paladin" on my list of characters I *need* to play. There would be so many great, juicy roleplaying bits that I wouldn't mind playing basically a fighter without the extra feats.

 

[Firedancer]

Oh...that sounds awesome. I need to put "fallen paladin" on my list of characters I *need* to play. There would be so many great, juicy roleplaying bits that I wouldn't mind playing basically a fighter without the extra feats.

I'd encourage you to. The player has made lots of comments about how much he's enjoyed it. We've had some strong sessions purely of roleplay.

As it was discussed in the group everyone was willing to take the time in the development. Its cool to think with a different set of party members this redeemed paladin could have ended up selling his soul to anyone to avoid his fate, sinking into utter darkness and inflciting suffering on all those he fought.

 

[Hussar]

Depending on the player and the DM, it could be very good or very, very bad. I had a paladin fall twice in a 2e game. The first time, I failed to save a bystander when I could have and I lost status. The Dm was actually pretty surprised that I didn't argue the point, but, from my POV, I agreed with his reasoning. I spent the next adventure or two working back into the good books and it was ok.

The second time I completely did not agree with the reasoning and it just caused all sorts of problems at the table. I didn't handle things well at all and it just spiraled to the point where the character was unplayable. (Note, never strip someone of status just because he nails the evil thief who just dropped the companion without giving warning. )

This is one area where the DM and the player need to be reading from the same playbook.