Fantastic mysteries vs. DM cheating

[Ralts Bloodthorne]

My world is a vast place, recently redone when the whole world suffered a horrible cataclysm. Now, some players had been playing in this setting for over 10 years, and still did not know everything about it (the first map was drawn for it under the old Chainmail rules) or where things came from.
Mutations, Life Masters, PrC's, Flesh Magic, ect ect ect all twisted creatures, as did the Lich King Wars.
So, when the cat in the alley growls low in it's throat, and suddenly spikes erupt from it's back in a bloody spray, the fur splits open with a wet sound like carpet tearing, and the teeth elongate, they are surprised as players, and thier PC's are suprised, but I am not accused of cheating.
When the emanciated halfling suddenly bites and NPC and the NPC turns black in the face and froths green foam, then falls over dead, they react with shock, disgust, and kill it at a distance.

How to not get accused at cheating on mechanics.
LEARN THEM!
(This advice also applies to those of you who want to publish d20 material, please, please, please)
If your players feel you have a good working knowledge of the mechanics, and creations, then you will be trusted far more.
My knowledge of mechanics, and monster creation according to the official methods, allow me to twist and tweak monsters without my players having winged monkeys flying from thier arses.
Spell tweaking (If you check hard enough, the spell-seed and epic level spell-seed casting rules in the ELH will allow you to create low level spells too) follows the same rules.
Know your mechanics and your players will trust you. If you know them well enough, then even the "Rules Lawyer" PrC will back off.
Especially if you invite him to look over the creature after it is "playtested" to doublecheck your mechanics. This will make him feel as if his knowledge is appreciated, and for once, it can be applied for more than irritating the piss out of you.

That's how I do it anyway.

 

[Psion]

Re: Re: Re: Fantastic mysteries vs. DM cheating

Originally posted by Barsoomcore
Step One: Never tell your players anything as though it were from your own (the DM's) mouth. Their character's knowledge doesn't come from God, it comes from what people tell them. And people can be wrong.

Actually, I sort of follow my advice and it vexes some of my players who obviously weren't "raised" this way.

That said, I sometimes do explicitly tell my players some things, when it suits my purpose. For example, when they are over-analyzing things or I want to amplify on something that their character should know.

 

[Victim]

Step One: Never tell your players anything as though it were from your own (the DM's) mouth. Their character's knowledge doesn't come from God, it comes from what people tell them. And people can be wrong.

That said, once you've definitely committed to something, of course you have to maintain it. Unless you can come up with a viable reason for changing the rules. And even then, if you keep changing the rules, your players will get frustrated. Players need to feel like they have some kind of solid ground to stand on.

The stuff that comes directly from the DM is all lies.

 

[barsoomcore]

How to not get accused at cheating on mechanics.
LEARN THEM!
If your players feel you have a good working knowledge of the mechanics, and creations, then you will be trusted far more.
Especially if you invite him to look over the creature after it is "playtested" to doublecheck your mechanics. This will make him feel as if his knowledge is appreciated, and for once, it can be applied for more than irritating the piss out of you.

I totally agree with this sentiment. Don't use Rule 0 as an excuse for not learning the mechanics.

I enlist my players all the time. Some of them are smart, and like Sir Ralts (Dame Ralts?) says, it's nice to have their brains applied towards making your life easier rather than irritating you immensely. So they encounter some NPC class that is able to control spirits and one of my PCs wants to learn it and comes up with a plausible way that might happen.

So, ordinarily, I'd have to come up with actual rules as to how this class works, figure out all the little details and so on. Because of course I hadn't done it before .

Instead, I throw it at the player. "You figure out how it should work and I'll tell you if you're right." Worked like a charm.

 

[seasong]

Methods of Gaining Trust:
1. Act sincere.
2. Act consistent.
3. Act competent ("I know what the heck I'm doing").

Methods of Maintaining Trust:
1. Be sincere.
2. Be consistent.
3. Be competent (know what the heck you're doing).



One method that I use is the idea of an OOC safety net: players can ask me, at any time, anything about the campaign world or what is going on. I may stress the importance to "fun" of it remaining a mystery, but if they are really uncomfortable with not knowing, I'll tell them. This rarely comes into play - the players have learned that 99% of the time, it's more fun to not know... as long as they know that I know. (Note: it's not as formal as it sounds - it's just a long-standing policy that I adhere to).

As far as rules, I keep an idea in mind, constantly, of what is possible, plausible, and what pushes the envelope of both... and then I simply don't exceed the edges of the envelope. Within that space, I can improvise however much I want, with confidence that I can develop a specific rule if it becomes necessary. And if it is wildly improbable and implausible (but not impossible), it may well be beyond the grasp of PCs unwilling to devote their lives to the effort.

 

[Synicism]

I totally agree with this sentiment. Don't use Rule 0 as an excuse for not learning the mechanics.

I wish all GM's would abide by this.

Actually, this is where I generally accuse a GM of cheating. It boils down to a failure to understand the game and the use of Rule 0 to compensate.

Player: "OK, so the evil wizard is moving through my threatened area. I get an attack of opportunity. Oh look! A 20! And I verified! He takes a zillion damage!"

GM: "Huh? What do you mean?"

Player: "Uh... you know, attacks of opportunity?"

GM: "Oh. Um... you don't get one."

Player: "Dude, we went over this last week. And the week before that! Don't you understand how it works by now?"

GM: "Um, we're not going to use them anymore."

OK, so it's less a matter of cheating than a failure to understand how to play the game, but it's still irritating.

Something a friend of mine who works a helpdesk says about his customers applies to these poor GM's: RTFM.

 

[Desdichado]

I'm not talking so much about "cheating" because you don't know the rules. I'm talking about intentionally breaking them for some reason or other. You really can only do that if you know the rules very well, and if you have a really good reason for doing so. Just because you forgot about attacks of opportunity doesn't mean you should suddenly take them out, for instance.

But the perception is, often, that it's still cheating.

 

[barsoomcore]

I'm talking about intentionally breaking them for some reason or other. You really can only do that if you know the rules very well.

One of the most powerful lesson I ever learned I learned from a book called "How To Draw Monsters". There was a chapter on figure drawing and the author wrote:

"I know, I know, you're thinking 'why should I learn figure drawing when I want to draw hideous monsters?' But remember: you have to know where the head goes before you take it off and tuck it under the arm."

I find that this is good general advice about life, even if it takes a while to explain to people.

 

[Desdichado]

One of the most powerful lesson I ever learned I learned from a book called "How To Draw Monsters". There was a chapter on figure drawing and the author wrote:

I remember that book! I always wanted a copy of it, actually, and never got around to picking one up until I couldn't find it anymore. That publishing company also did a really good D&D coloring book that I picked up as a youngishster.

 

[barsoomcore]

Yeah, I dunno what happened to my copy. It was a GREAT book.

I never really learned how to draw, but I never forgot that idea.

Know where the head goes.