Fantasy becoming too fantastic...?

[hong]

I'm talking about the fact that the "game elements" of D&D are almost all about managing magical resources. That doesn't HAVE to be the case. It always has been, but that's no reason, in and of itself, for why that should continue. Fighter characters should have more rules-based options in combat than just "I whack him."

You know d00d, you don't actually have to play D&D.

 

[Numion]

You know d00d, you don't actually have to play D&D.

Yeah, but whining about it is still fun, mayne. It's teh intarweb

 

[Hussar]

Fighter characters should have more rules-based options in combat than just "I whack him."

You'll get absolutely no arguement from me on that one.

The only problem with the idea is it will slow down combat. The more options we add in, the slower and more complex combat will be. And I have no idea how to fix that.

 

[Tinker Gnome]

I pretty much like any type of fantasy. I like FR, Dragonlance, and Eberron, even though I have never played in Eberron. Dragonlance is my favorite, and it is not as Medieval as many people seem to think it is.

 

[francisca]

Actually, yes it would be pretty easy to do in 3e. Stuff like this is explicitly talked about in both the DMG and Unearthed Arcana. There is a neat "undead hunter" ranger variant in the DMG.

Ayup. Which was my point. If dumb ol' francisca can pull it off for 1e, it oughta be a snap for all these mental giants playing 3e. So they should just get down to it and quit complaining.

By the way, if you named the Strider after the Lord of the Rings character, I remember a dispute over whether his use of athelas to help soothe Frodo's shoulder was magic use or not. I maintain it was, with athelas being the component in a cure spell (maybe it even boosted the efficacy of it). He was chanting over the water and the herb in what I felt was a spellcastery way...but others saw it differently.

No, looks like I missed that round of nitpicking. I've never really thought whether or not altheas was a "spell component", so to speak. I guess I could form arguments on either side.

Anyway, the class name is swiped right from Aragorn's moniker. In this case, the medicinal point mechanic is not magical. It is something the class was very skilled at, but mundane, somewhat akin to the thieve's ability to read languages and climb walls. I made it that way because I'm one of those reviled "scarce magic" DMs.

Fighter characters should have more rules-based options in combat than just "I whack him."

My two cents.

Well, they can trip, disarm, grapple, etc... True, the Fighter's list of "stuff I'm good at" is martially oriented, but you don't have to whack the hell out of everything round after round.

 

[ColonelHardisson]

You know d00d, you don't actually have to play D&D.

Quite often I've seen people reply to this line of thinking by saying something like "well, that doesn't solve anything!" Well, yeah, yeah it does. There are countless other RPGs out there, many of them that actually do EXACTLY what the person with the gripe wants. In this case, the fact that hong is proffering the advice is especially cogent, given his championing of Iron Heroes. Iron Heroes is, essentially, D&D for those who want fighters to have more options in combat. "But I can't find players for anything but D&D!" some shout. Then play D&D and use Iron Heroes to add in combat complexity. "But when I buy D&D, I want it to stand alone. I don't wanna have to buy extra stuff!" Sorry, but the game's not gonna change to suit one individual. The fact that there are options out there that can be plugged in to make the game what one wants is a great thing. Unfortunately, it does take a little effort at the individual level.

 

[hong]

What makes it especially funny is that JohnSnow is already playing Iron Heroes. So not only is there another game that suits his purpose, he's complaining about a game he doesn't even play.

 

[Desdichado]

Y'know, I'm just wondering if I'm alone here, but with current trends it just seems that there's not much room for ye olde classic fantasy. I guess what I mean is that with the barrage of splat books going down the road of "who wants orcs and goblins when you could have dire-fiendish-half-dragon-githyanki" does anyone else kinda long for the simple stuff? You know, the merry band of heroes out to rescue the damsel in distress, maybe some goblins, a dragon perhaps, an evil wizard, and wits necessary--not nuke like magic items?

You're obviously not alone. Have you looked at General Discussion lately? This is the hot topic du jour right now.

 

[JohnSnow]

What makes it especially funny is that JohnSnow is already playing Iron Heroes. So not only is there another game that suits his purpose, he's complaining about a game he doesn't even play.

Sort of true. I actually WANT to support D&D because, well, I still think of my Iron Heroes games as "D&D." The fact that I had to switch to a variant player's handbook doesn't really bother me, other than that there are times I wish I could play Eberron (which I think is a cool setting) without cringing at some of the D&Disms that would inevitably return to the game.

So call this my little way of contributing to the internet diatribe for a better 4th Edition.

Or, alternatively, pimping Iron Heroes. Take your pick.

(ASIDE: Y'know, it's REALLY funny having someone who's houseruled Iron Heroes as much as hong has criticize me for wanting D&D to have more customization built in...)

 

[RFisher]

Y'know, I'm just wondering if I'm alone here, but with current trends it just seems that there's not much room for ye olde classic fantasy. I guess what I mean is that with the barrage of splat books going down the road of "who wants orcs and goblins when you could have dire-fiendish-half-dragon-githyanki" does anyone else kinda long for the simple stuff? You know, the merry band of heroes out to rescue the damsel in distress, maybe some goblins, a dragon perhaps, an evil wizard, and wits necessary--not nuke like magic items?

Just a thought.

No, I've found that there's plenty of room for "ye olde classic fantasy". But then, I don't buy all the splatbooks. Beyond the core 3e books, I have only OA & D&DG, & I don't think I've ever actually used anything out of them yet.

Plus, I've got a shelfload of other RPGs that can do "ye olde classic fantasy" just fine as well. Prince Valiant is great for the quick damsel in distress/slay the dragon thing.

That's not to say that I don't throw in the occasional outrageous thing. Just that I try to keep them fairly rare. I tend to find that they have more impact that way.

Likewise, since my tendency is to stay with a fairly conservative baseline, I really enjoy the "too fantastic" worlds when I do get to experience them.