Fantasy Concepts: An OGL Fantasy Saga Project

[Flynn]

Why would you try and shoehorn in a Vancian magic system into a Saga Fantasy game when the Force system in SWSE works just fine and much better?

If I want Vancian magic, I would play D&D. You put in Vancian magic, than that is too close to D&D, and part of what makes Saga edition so great is that it is different.

Just rename Force = Magic. Rename the Force Power = Magic Spells.

Create new Magic Spells.

Here an example that is by no means really playtested, but just for kicks:
Fireball is an area effect attack, with a radius of 4 squares, that does 6d6 damage on a successful hit and half damage if the attack roll is less than the Reflex Defense. The range of the fireball can be 20 squares, must make an attack roll and compare to all Reflex Defenses in the radius.

I mean, just one way of creating a spell. This was spur of the moment.

Rename Force Training = Spell Training. Take the Jedi = Spellcaster/Mystic.

Create a couple of new Talent trees, possibly all based on the major classes of spells in D&D, for those who might want to specialize.

But please don't use Vancian magic, because there is no need at all. I got D&D, and all the house rules for that. I don't need another Vancian magic system game. It's been done to death for the last 30 years, why replace something new and exciting with something as old as this. Boring.

Just my opinion, my .02

Here's the official reason why I wouldn't do what you are suggesting: What's the OGL reference I can use to bring the Force point system into this project, so that I don't suffer a lawsuit at the hands of the big corporation that owns the rights to the Force system you want to use? To my knowledge, there is no such OGL reference, and therefore, the system cannot be used in an OGL publication.

What I am proposing is simply a talent tree that covers the basics of a magic system. In your games, you could remove the talent tree and use Saga's Force mechanics all you desire, because you don't have to worry about the legalities of such things in your home game.

If there's something else you'd like to see, I'm going to ask that you create the magic system you'd like to see and then share it under the OGL. Several people have said they'd help in this project, so this would be one area in which they could. Until I see a complete magic system, though, I'm likely to take the easy way out, and let you house rule it as you wish.

Here's the unofficial reason: Personally, I'm not interested in redoing the Force into Magic. That concept just doesn't do it for me, and the amount of work I'd have to put in to create something that doesn't work for me isn't a motivation to do it.

Besides, I can almost guarantee that 4E won't change from a Vancian magic system, so it's not going away. It's a "sacred cow", and will be until another magic system becomes overwhelmingly popular. So far, there isn't such a system as yet.

Looking Forward To More,
Flynn

 

[Flynn]

I may as well get this out for discussion as well...

Classes
I'm currently thinking about five core classes: Fighter, Expert (the Rogue with additional talent trees for alternate skill-based character concepts), Wizard, Cleric and Aristocrat.

These cover the four classic archetypes in fantasy gaming, and also gives us a noble/charismatic leader as well.

Thoughts?

With Regards,
Flynn

 

[Nine Hands]

I may as well get this out for discussion as well...

Classes
I'm currently thinking about five core classes: Fighter, Expert (the Rogue with additional talent trees for alternate skill-based character concepts), Wizard, Cleric and Aristocrat.

These cover the four classic archetypes in fantasy gaming, and also gives us a noble/charismatic leader as well.

Thoughts?

With Regards,
Flynn

Just something I thought of....

One of the things I liked about d20 Modern was that they embraced the six attributes as character classes. With 5 classes, you are very close to that ideal.

Fighter -- Strength
Expert (Rogue) -- Dexterity
Wizard -- Intelligence
Cleric -- Wisdom
Aristocrat -- Charisma

All your missing is a class that runs off Constitution...

This might allow you to tailor the talent trees to specific attributes easier.

Just a thought though...

 

[EditorBFG]

Having followed this and the other thread, I contacted the head honcho of Big Finger Games, and I have been authorized to reveal that a new fantasy game using some Saga inspired OGC analog content has been in active development for the past month or so. A natural outgrowth from our work with Fantastic Classes, our plan was in some ways more ambitious, but in other ways less, than what you seem to be planning.

So, after some discussion, we wanted to know: Should we just press on separately and offer different versions, or is Samardan Press interested in some kind of intra-publisher collaboration?

 

[Kunimatyu]

Maybe I'm wrong here, but I thought specific game mechanics were uncopyrightable?

In other words, while you can't have "Force Points" per se, there's nothing wrong with "Mana Points" using a similar mechanic.

I mean, honestly, if SWSE itself was being held to the same standard as you're proposing, Green Ronin could probably have sued WotC over a number of the mechanics originally in True20 and adapted to Saga Edition.

 

[Baron Opal]

Why would you try and shoehorn in a Vancian magic system into a Saga Fantasy game when the Force system in SWSE works just fine and much better?

Because Flynn can't use the SWSE system due to legal concerns. He has to be able to show that the mechanics in the document he is working on came from some other OGL document. OGL documents have explicit permissions that he needs since I presume this fantasy document is going to be for sale. SWSE is most definatly not OGL, and I presume that Flynn does not want to argue with WotC and Skywalker Ranch lawyers.

If you want the SWSE "magic" system, find its predecessor in OGL format and I'm sure that Flynn will be happy to oblige your request.

Edit: Beat to the punch. Several times. Oww....

 

[smootrk]

Cant you just wait for 4th Edition D&D which comes out next month?... or so I've heard over and over and over and over and over.

 

[kaomera]

First of all: Thank You.

I love the concept of a Saga-style fantasy system. I'll be buying a copy as soon as you'll take my money (or at least shortly after the first payday following). Beyond voting with my pennies, however, I wanted to say that I appreciate the work that you (and pretty much all other game designers) do so that I can have something cool to run for my players.

As for what I'd like to see in the product: I'd like something modular. The more outside material that I can adapt to the system, the more stuff from this product that I can adapt to outside material, and the ease with which this adaptation can be accomplished, the better, IMHO.

With regards to classes: I actually like that Scout and Scoundrel are split up.

So, after some discussion, we wanted to know: Should we just press on separately and offer different versions, or is Samardan Press interested in some kind of intra-publisher collaboration?

Obviously you're not asking me, but I'd just like to chime in and say that I'd be happy to buy both products. Having more of a good thing can't be bad.

 

[catsclaw227]

I'd like to see this done with a powers system instead of vancian magic as well. Not necessarily a rehash of True20, but maybe a simplified Elements of Magic?

 

[Flynn]

Having followed this and the other thread, I contacted the head honcho of Big Finger Games, and I have been authorized to reveal that a new fantasy game using some Saga inspired OGC analog content has been in active development for the past month or so. A natural outgrowth from our work with Fantastic Classes, our plan was in some ways more ambitious, but in other ways less, than what you seem to be planning.

So, after some discussion, we wanted to know: Should we just press on separately and offer different versions, or is Samardan Press interested in some kind of intra-publisher collaboration?

I would definitely be interested in some kind of intra-publisher collaboration. Please feel free to contact me via jason.flynn.kemp ~AT~ gmail.com if you'd like to discuss this offline.

With Regards,
Flynn