Fast Enough for Feather Fall?

[KarinsDad]

Surprise actually does state "Unaware Combatants... don’t get to act in the surprise round. " Technically, that's in addition to being flat-footed, so no Immediate Actions during a surprise round. Suprise rounds can ONLY happen at the start of combat, though, so for a pit trap outside of combat the spellcaster can cast "Feather Fall."

But, this appears to be a dicotomy in the rules.

If the caster is out of combat, he can save himself (Feather Fall says so).

If a surprise combat occurs and an opponent springs a pit trap under the caster, the caster is still flat footed and cannot save himself (immediate actions cannot occur while flat footed and Feather Fall is an immediate action).

So, if the trap sprung itself, the caster is fast enough to save himself. If an opponent springs the trap, the caster is not fast enough to save himself.

 

[Artoomis]

This does not state what you can do for some other creature.

True, it's only a starting point for how to decide if you want to vary from the RAW.

Not true. RAW does prohibit immediate actions while Flat-footed:

Yep. I've already corrected that. However, there is no surprise or flat-footed condition outside of combat.

Of course a DM is free to do what they will...

 

[Artoomis]

But, this appears to be a dicotomy in the rules.

If the caster is out of combat, he can save himself (Feather Fall says so).

If a surprise combat occurs and an opponent springs a pit trap under the caster, the caster is still flat footed and cannot save himself (immediate actions cannot occur while flat footed and Feather Fall is an immediate action).

So, if the trap sprung itself, the caster is fast enough to save himself. If an opponent springs the trap, the caster is not fast enough to save himself.

Quite right. That's the RAW.

I recommend treating "Feather Fall" as special, but that's very much a DM's call and not RAW.

Personally, I think it's nice to know what the RAW has to say to aid a DM in making the right decision - which is not always to follow RAW.

 

[KarinsDad]

However, there is no surprise or flat-footed condition outside of combat.

I don't see anything in the SRD that disagrees with this, but a trap is an encounter.

The DMG rules might allow for initiative for any encounter, not just combats. I'll have to look them up this evening. If so, a DM could roll initiatives for a trap. The SRD is real good at listing most of the PHB rules, but sometimes drops some things from the DMG.

 

[Artoomis]

I don't see anything in the SRD that disagrees with this, but a trap is an encounter.

The DMG rules might allow for initiative for any encounter, not just combats. I'll have to look them up this evening. If so, a DM could roll initiatives for a trap. The SRD is real good at listing most of the PHB rules, but sometimes drops some things from the DMG.

Yes it is an encounter, but, IIRC, that's in the context of granting experience, not combat.

What's your goal here? Understanding the issues? Preventing the Feather Fall? Convincing a DM to allow the Feather Fall?

If you are the DM and it's just a trap (not combat), I'd definately allow the feather fall to work. I mean, after all, that is what the spell is for.

 

[IndyPendant]

When I see questions like this, I always think of my sig. Frank, flavour text can justify *anything*. Your statement is flavour.

What is the Fun Factor? Do your PCs like it when the odds are stacked against them? (This is not a sarcastic question; many PCs *do* like that challenge.) Then limit the spell similar to your description. If not, let them cast it.

What is the Balance? Here, imo, the situation is clear. Feather Fall is one of those "lifesaver, in very very very limited situations" spells. Most of those types of spells usually go on scrolls; but Feather Fall is unique (in the SRD) in that the situation it is most needed for makes a scroll useless. Thus, a wizard must prepare it, or a sorceror pick it as one of his very limited spells. In either case, the wizard or sorceror could go days, even weeks, of campaigning without using it even once. In my opinion, if the wizard/sorceror is using the spell, and the situation comes up where it *could* be useful, but the rules are ambiguous--then let it be useful. Otherwise, Feather Fall becomes an all-but useless spell except in very very specific situations ("We must climb to the top of Mount Killemall to get the MacGuffin to defeat the BBEG! Wizard, prep a few Feather Falls." "Why? I'll just Teleport us up." "...Why did you get Feather Fall anyways?" "Dunno. Never used it." : ) and the caster just memorizes another Magic Missile.

What are the Mechanics? By RAW it's unclear, as others have demonstrated. The flavour can be worded any which way you want, from letting the caster use it any time he's alert, to never letting him cast it until his action comes up in a combat round (and since combat doesn't happen with a pit trap, it can only be used in combat situations...)

In my campaigns, I would let the caster cast the spell in almost any appropriate situation, without creating additional limiting house rules. As another poster said, that's what Feather Fall was specifically *designed* to do!

 

[Infiniti2000]

How do people rule Feather Fall when an arcane caster has to unexpectedly cast it on another creature?

I allow it without a problem. It's only a problem if you adopt the Immediate Action 'variant'. Go back to the original and there will not be the inconsistency as you notice it here.

Say you have a pit trap and a PC misses the Reflex save on the trap and falls in. Feather Fall is effectively an immediate action and immediate actions cannot be done while Flat Footed. So, can a fellow arcane PC be quick enough to save the falling PC?

Note that the real inconsistency here is when the arcane PC falls as well. Now, he can save himself with the featherfall, but since you can affect more than 1 creature with it (assume CL > 1), can he also save his buddy? Or, do you disallow that because the spell says "save yourself"?

Quite right. That's the RAW.

True. Just not the core RAW.