Fate Questions

[GameOgre]

Conceding and Taken Out

I'm having a difficult time with this. So a player can concede a fight and they describe how it ended? I'm having some trouble (again probably because of D&D) picturing this in play where it makes since in a group atmosphere.

Does the player say something like" Cozak deflects the orc blade with his mace but the orc fist smashes into his face. Cozak crashs to the ground unconscious". ?

Could he just run away? Would that work in a dungeon? What limits are on it? Can he say" Cozak is stabbed in the leg but a passing warrior grabs him and whisks him away?


In practice how is this used?


Also for npc's ect can the DM just have them concede and say the party captures them? What if the pc's want to kill him?

 

[Nagol]

In Strands of FATE, a version released before FATE Core, concessions are negotiated between the parties. One example given in the book has the PCs attacked in their base:

For example, John’s character, The Blue Baron, has been ambushed in his home base. His nemesis, Shady Jack, has invaded with a small army of his best  warriors.  The fight breaks out, and after a few rounds, it is clear to John that The Blue  Baron isn’t going to make it out alive. So he offers a Concession to the GM. The  Blue Baron will place an explosive on his hideout’s main reactor, destroying his base to buy him time to escape. The GM decides this is reasonable since The Blue Baron will lose the use of his  home base. So he accepts the Concession and allows John to describe how the explosion provides his means of escape. 

You don't have to accept a concession. The primary reason to accept a concession (other than to move the narrative along) is to prevent any more Stress accumulation and possible defeat.

 

[Umbran]

You don't have to accept a concession.

The GM must accept that the PC concedes. The GM does *not* get to insist the conflict continue. They then can negotiate on the narration. The narration has to reflect that you lost, and you can't use it to undermine the opponent's victory. But, if you got Taken Out, your character might be dead, or end up shackled to the wall without gear in the enemy's dungeon. If you Concede, you may be knocked out and forgotten about in the chaos of combat, able to then get up and sneak away to fight another day.

So, if you concede and say, "I run away, grabbing the BBEG's magic amulet as I go..." the GM is within rights to nix that. Conceding isn't about accomplishing anything, it is about not getting quite as hosed by losing.

 

[Umbran]

Conceding and Taken Out

I'm having a difficult time with this. So a player can concede a fight and they describe how it ended?

Yep. Specifically, he can do so such that his or her situation doesn't worsen - which usually means narrating a way to be disengaged from the enemy and the enemy doesn't follow up.

Does the player say something like" Cozak deflects the orc blade with his mace but the orc fist smashes into his face. Cozak crashs to the ground unconscious". ?

That would be one, yes. I might add, "...and the orc leaves Cozak for dead," or something similar.

Could he just run away? Would that work in a dungeon?

In general, yes he could run away. Whether that works in a dungeon would depend on the situation. FATE, for the most part, doesn't deal with detailed maps, with fiddly bits down on the 5' or 10' scale. It works in more arbitrary "zones". Say you had an orc lair, it might have a zone for the living area, a zone for the cooking area, and a zone for the sleeping area. If you entered all this from "a maze of twisty passages", then escaping out into that maze would make a lot of sense. If you entered through a lake of lava and no longer have the fly spell going... not so much.

What limits are on it? Can he say" Cozak is stabbed in the leg but a passing warrior grabs him and whisks him away?

If there are already a mob of NPC goons around, sure! Or maybe Cozak is downed, and the orcs start squabbling over his gear, and Cozak sneaks away...

In practice how is this used?

It varies a lot, depending on the situation. As I mentioned, it is generally used to disengage from the fight, and make it so the Bad Guy can't screw with you for losing.

Also for npc's ect can the DM just have them concede and say the party captures them? What if the pc's want to kill him?

NPCs can *certainly* concede. But, if you do, you'd typically use it to escape, not be captured. This is classic "NPC escapes to become a recurring villain" territory that FATE loves. If you do narrate capture, there really isn't anything to stop the PCs from killing the NPC in the very next scene.

More typically, if the NPC gets Taken Out, then the players get to choose if they kill or capture, or do something else.

 

[Luce]

NPC concession do add up up the corresponding Fate points to the DM pool for the next significant scene (fate core p82)

Oh, and it is complete up to taste, but I personally would let NPC get captured (when conceding) And if the PC decide to kill them anyway... Well, we will be having their progeny show up latter with "My name is <fill in the blank>. You killed my father. Prepare to die." Great aspect name too.

 

[Blue]

Lets say I and a friend are in a gunfight with a bad guy. I create a advantage (by shooting out the light) on our end of the parking garage of in the dark. Now if more of my friends came up the stairs to join us in the fight, they would have to spend a Fate Point to take advantage of the dark?

I don't get how once you do something in game to take advantage of something it then costs characters to use that advantage(I know about the free uses but there are times that doesn't even last through the scene.

This bothered me too until I put it into Champions terms. Champions uses the Hero System, and is a point buy for everything. You can get extra points for disadvantages, but it's up to the DM how often they show up. They show up very often, you should have gotten more points. Never show up and you've got free points.

It occurred to me instead of getting free points, if instead you get points only when it shows up and meaningful.

And bang, that's of getting a compel against an Aspect works - you have a disadvantage/your opponent has an advantage against you, and you get a fate point.

But then flip it around. When you want to use an advantage, you need to pay a fate point. Say you are amazing strong, and your friend can tell the age and maker of paper perfectly. The second probably comes up a lot less often, but that's fine - they pay for using it very infrequently as well. Now jus extend this out to anything. Every time you want to use your amazingly strong, you need to pay a Fate point. Or use the fact that it's dark. Or any other advantage - you pay a Fate point.

It's very symmetrical - get disadvantaged, gain a Fate point, use advantage pay a Fate point. (And THAT GUY who builds characters good at everything will have the same number of chances to shine as everyone else.)

That's why it's good to have aspects you can be abused with. And take consequences that can be used against you. Because they fuel your own heroics and frankly - you're a PC, you're more heroic then they are.

 

[KahlessNestor]

I just ordered Fate Core and some dice. Are there any other books I need to get? Heard about the system (and have the Dresden core books, though I haven't finished reading through them) and I wanted to check it out.

 

[Vaslov]

Welcome to FATE! It's a bit of a journey coming from D&D as it isn't a wargame. My own experience is I didn't really start to get the system until I ran something away from my comfort zone of "typical fantasy". It isn't that FATE cannot run fantasy, but that my gamer/GM reflexes were all wrong. So if fantasy is your normal trope I would suggest that you throw it in the Spanish main, modern day or any gerne you are comfortable with, but do not game in often. It will help stop you from pausing to check if there is a OoA, etc. Also be sure there is opportunity for social combat. It's one of FATEs strong points.

As for the Taken Out some good advice up thread. It's about what everyone at the table agrees is a cool twist to the story. I'll add that rarely should a character mechanically wait until death before conceding, unless it is the big ending of the tale. They fall off a cliff into the river and float away unconscious while the antagonist makes another step forward in their game. Or get captured and hung in the cave to be eaten later like a certain Jedi. And if the antagonists surrender and the players decide to execute them make them detail it out in gory detail so they feel the emotion of it as well. Or perhaps the slaughtered orc's son watches on from the shadows vowing bloody vengeance someday. In FATE it is all about the story.

While nothing is better than trying out your first game I found the Knights of the Night AP (http://www.kotnpodcast.com/) to be very helpful in understanding what play and world building was like before trying it out. Their Dresden recording Rituals is fantastic and episode 29 is a good example of social combat. They bend and forget all sorts or rules, but it is a great example of how FATE runs. FYI, Dresden rules are a bit different than FATE Core, but not so different that it matters.

 

[GameOgre]

I received by Fate Core hardback and dice in the mail and I am busy devouring the rules. It was a pleasant surprise the dice had three sets of dice in it and that the book was hardback! So far so good! It's a lot easier for me to understand it in book form verse pdf.

 

[Umbran]

Welcome to FATE! It's a bit of a journey coming from D&D as it isn't a wargame. My own experience is I didn't really start to get the system until I ran something away from my comfort zone of "typical fantasy". It isn't that FATE cannot run fantasy, but that my gamer/GM reflexes were all wrong. So if fantasy is your normal trope I would suggest that you throw it in the Spanish main, modern day or any gerne you are comfortable with, but do not game in often. It will help stop you from pausing to check if there is a OoA, etc. Also be sure there is opportunity for social combat. It's one of FATEs strong points.

There is some wisdom in this. Stepping into a genre you like, but that you don't play often, is a good way to get away from old habits, and think instead about how *this* game runs.