Favored Enemy - How does the Ranger know?

[Soramain]

So, what then? You pass the Ranger player a note when his Spirit of the Hunt special ability tells him that this creature is Undead and then forbid him to tell the other players?

If he knows they're undead, why would he be forbidden from telling the other players?

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

If he knows they're undead, why would he be forbidden from telling the other players?

A lot of DMs don't like the prospect of a Ranger automatically IDing their favored enemies and potentially ruining plans the DM may have had to use subterfuge or trickery against the players, possibly as a cornerstone to the plot. Which is why I suggested the "secretly add it in" method.

I personally have no problem with it, I think auto-ID should just be a perk of having that type as your favored enemy, for the reasons bulatzi described. And again, you get this EXACT SAME "problem" with a Bane weapon. And I refuse to treat one of the ranger's major class features as inferior to a +1 weapon property.

 

[Soramain]

A lot of DMs don't like the prospect of a Ranger automatically IDing their favored enemies...

Oh, definitely. But I think once you get to the point of changing it to a supernatural ability that automatically works, you've already rounded that bend.

 

[Ahnehnois]

If you're using a rules system where polymorph changes your creature type, then this is correct. However, since in PF you're mostly just taking on the appearance/shell of a creature but actually becoming it, iirc you do not change creature type. So even though you look like a pixie, you're still an Ogre Mage. Thus FE applies.



I disagree. Where does it say a Ranger needs to be aware his foe is a favored enemy to get the bonus? I have never seen such a rule. I've only ever seen DMs on messageboards unnerved by the lack of such a rule for some reason.

I guess I was distracted by the notion that the bonus exists because of some specific knowledge the attacker has about his prey, as opposed to because the player picked an ability and is somehow entitled to use it whenever fighting something that technically meets the guidelines. I won't argue what the RAW say, but I will say these sorts of things are where I'd exercise my discretion.

Frankly, I prefer favored terrain anyway.

 

[tylermalan]

If he knows they're undead, why would he be forbidden from telling the other players?

Because the idea is that if knowing the creature's type is valuable information (that gives a combat edge), you wouldn't want the entire group to know just because there's a Ranger in the party.

 

[tylermalan]

I guess I was distracted by the notion that the bonus exists because of some specific knowledge the attacker has about his prey, as opposed to because the player picked an ability and is somehow entitled to use it whenever fighting something that technically meets the guidelines. I won't argue what the RAW say, but I will say these sorts of things are where I'd exercise my discretion.

And this is kind-of where I'm coming from. A ranger knows how to fight an elf. He knows how they are weak, and the exploitation of this knowledge is expressed in game terms as a +2 to hit. But if he doesn't know whether or not a given enemy is an elf, why would he get this bonus? He doesn't know whether there is an elven weakness there to exploit.

Further, there is no rule that states that he automatically identifies creatures, and there IS a rule stating he gets a bonus to monster knowledge checks against his favored enemies. This seems to suggest that he still needs to make these checks to identify the monsters.

 

[Soramain]

Because the idea is that if knowing the creature's type is valuable information (that gives a combat edge), you wouldn't want the entire group to know just because there's a Ranger in the party.

I understand, but if the ranger has a supernatural ability that triggers when he fights undead, and he knows that it has triggered, there's no in-game reason why he could not communicate that. "Uh, guys, my Spirit of the Hunt only speaks when I fight the undead, and it's speaking!"

Put another way, the point of the house rule that makes it a supernatural ability is so that the ranger gets the bonus even if he doesn't know he's fighting his favored enemy. Either the ranger doesn't know his ability is active and he's just more effective than he should be, or he does know and he should be able to communicate it.

 

[tylermalan]

Well I was being more facetious with my comment about the Ranger being prohibited from communicating, mainly because this is free information he's getting with no RAW to back it up. I'm not saying this make the Ranger overpowered or something, though.

The other factor at work here is that there are other examples of this type of situation that have nothing to do with the Ranger. The Gnome, for example. Should the Gnome also automatically know?

 

[N'raac]

I see no reason the ranger, or the gnome, or whoever, should automatically know they are facing a favoured enemy. At the same time, I think the Gnome conducts combat in a manner that makes him very effective at dodging Giants, and our Ranger example fights in a style conducive to hitting his favoured enemy(ies).

Given that, if you don't want to tell them, then the onus is on you the DM to ensure these bonuses are applied when the character faces an opponent against which he is entitled to a bonus.

I could see a case that this should not apply to "hatred" bonuses - Dwarves hate orcs so they get +1 to hit - but then the character should get his bonus against non-Orcs he mistakenly believes to be his hated enemy.

There is also a difference between knowing an enemy is Undead (which we could allow that Ranger knows), and knowing details about the Undead (ie the benefits he would need KS: Religion to determine).

 

[concerro]

I trust my players not to metagame if I tell them they are fighting creature X for the purpose of combat bonuses. The character does not know what the player knows. If I get a group of players that can't make the separation then I will handle the bonuses, and they just better hope I don't lose track of what they get bonuses against.