Favored enemy

[Li Shenron]

What's the point of getting bonuses on Spot and Listen if you need to already have detected the creature and identified it?

I was mostly thinking about the damage bonus. For the damage and the bluff bonuses (and maybe but not necessarily survival) I think you definitely need to know beforehand, because they are "actions". The others are more like reactions, so it's fine to just apply the bonuses.

 

[Nifft]

There is a middle ground I guess.

Ftr: What's that you're putting on your arrowheads, Ranger old chap?
Rgr: Lightly toasted ash slivers, dipped in belladona sap. Well known to cause grevious wounds in aberrations. I'm putting this mixture on all my weapons, in addition to that stuff from earlier.
Ftr: The silver-dust thing?
Rgr: Yeah. It's a really mild version of holy water, but if it's right in the wound, it causes a bit of extra damage to undead.
Ftr: Could you put some on my weapons?
Rgr: Sure! Of course, you'd need to change around how you carry your stuff, or it'll denature right quick. Your sword would need to be wrapped in this anti-dessicant lichen inside its scabbard, and your arrows would need to -- wait, you don't have a bow, do you?
Ftr: Er... lichen?
Rgr: Okay, no worries. Let me show you how to gather this bark and lichen. You really need both to be fresh or they don't preserve the sap at all.
Ftr: Er... gather bark? Maybe I'll just keep polishing my sword with normal oil.
Rgr: Suit yourself.

-- N

 

[Li Shenron]

...and when the Rogue grabs an arrow from the Ranger's quiver and shoot it at the same monster, how do you tell him what happened to the damage bonus?

 

[Voadam]

I was under the impression that in 3.0, a Ranger's favoured enemy bonus relied on vulnerability to critical hits. Did this change in 3.5?

Yep it changed for the better in 3.5, a ranger can get his damage bonuses against undead now, just as he does with the bonus from point blank shot.

 

[Nifft]

...and when the Rogue grabs an arrow from the Ranger's quiver and shoot it at the same monster, how do you tell him what happened to the damage bonus?

"You broke off all the good bits! Don't you know how to be careful of the holly spikes?! Look, you're just doing it wrong. I can show you how to do it correctly, but it could take... er... when's your next level?"

Really, it's the same as the "problem" of a Fighter grabbing a wand and "saying the same word the Wizard said". How do you tell him what happened to the magic? He said the same word and everything!

-- N

 

[Li Shenron]

"You broke off all the good bits! Don't you know how to be careful of the holly spikes?! Look, you're just doing it wrong. I can show you how to do it correctly, but it could take... er... when's your next level?"

Really, it's the same as the "problem" of a Fighter grabbing a wand and "saying the same word the Wizard said". How do you tell him what happened to the magic? He said the same word and everything!

-- N

Ok. Then explain how the ranger gets the same damage bonus when attacking unarmed, or with an improvised weapon suck as pebble picked up from the ground.

I understand that with a stretch you can manage to explain everything, but how many gamers would like that and how many would be pissed off?

The original explanation worked well because first came the explanation and then came the rule, and finally came the exceptions (undead immune to favored enemy damage bonus). Now we have to go backwards with obtruse explanations and excuses, to justify a modification in those exceptions.

 

[JustKim]

Hey, I'm glad you all saw fit to fix the rampant abuse of ranger favored enemy. The one or two times I've seen a ranger in a situation to use his favored enemy I've thought to myself "How could I have prevented this?" Good call on requiring knowledge checks, if a ranger wants to use his class abilities he should multiclass into something that grants the knowledge skills he'll need. Let's reverse the extra damage to undead, constructs, oozes and plants too, because people were really satisfied with the ranger in 3.0.

 

[Nifft]

Ok. Then explain how the ranger gets the same damage bonus when attacking unarmed, or with an improvised weapon suck as pebble picked up from the ground.

No.

This explanation is for people who don't like that, and want the damage to be from "skill or research". If one of them has you for a player, then you two can work out the details.

-- N

PS: IMC, it's far easier than that. I explain all damage and other bonuses with "it's magic".

 

[Li Shenron]

This explanation is for people who don't like that, and want the damage to be from "skill or research". If one of them has you for a player, then you two can work out the details.

Ok, let's not argue anymore. I only wanted to criticize a bit your idea of relating the explanation with the equipment, which has some danger as soon as people start considering moving the equipment around, or non-obvious equipment.

I have also always stick to the explanation of "skill & research", just without so far going into the details. I thought you were trying to find an explanation why the damage bonus works even if the ranger does not know he's facing an enemy. Because I think that the ranger needs to know to get that bonus, I was trying to catch some pitfall in your explanation. Nothing personal, it's just that normally my GM decisions (such as this case) try to be those that require the shortest and simplest explanation, hence my attempts at making yours to require more and more explanations

PS: IMC, it's far easier than that. I explain all damage and other bonuses with "it's magic".

Yes, this would be even simpler, but how many times can you do this before your players are disappointed? At least I know that I would be the first disappointed by myself, if I resorted to this explanation when I have some difficulty...

 

[Nifft]

Yes, this would be even simpler, but how many times can you do this before your players are disappointed? At least I know that I would be the first disappointed by myself, if I resorted to this explanation when I have some difficulty...

The Ranger IMC has the favor of Cernunos, the Horned God of the Hunt. He's quite religious, and his Favored Enemies are those that Cernunos has chosen him to hunt. So, in this case, it's working well. And it's certainly magic.

-- N