D&D 5E Favored Soul: Overpowered?

[Mephista]

*raises eyebrows* In what way would warlock be a good Favored Soul? The narrative doesn't match, the spell list is just as problematic as the sorcerer's, book and chain warlocks make no sense based on the history of the class, let alone an eldritch blasting. Heaven forbid you have a Favored Soul Warlock with a god that favors a bow - not happening without significant reworking. I just don't see the connection. Is it just the desire to push a divine Patron on warlock instead of remaking the Favored Soul faithfully?

Yes, the Favored Soul needs more cleric-like spells, but that's why we're playtesting the class and seeing how it works out; its also why we're getting Origin spells on both. The Favored Soul always was "Sorcerer with cleric spells and favored weapons." Mechanically and historically it is tied to the Sorcerer class. Its an innate spell caster, not someone who's taught by Patrons.

So, why would warlock be "better?"

 

[Corey Miller]

After thinking about it a lot, I've decided that Sorcerer is just the wrong base class to use for Favored Soul. I'd rather have seen it be a Warlock subclass, in spite of the fact that the Warlock retains so much of the "non-good" flavor from 3.x. Warlock paths already do basically exactly the same thing as the Favored Soul subclass by adding a selection of spells.

Beyond flavor reasons, however, I see no reason that a Warlock's patron can't be a good deity or other powerful good immortal. You can re-brand spells like hex/necrotic to divine censure/radiant and invocations like devil's sight to angel's sight. Why couldn't a Warlock be bound to an Archon of Justice as a patron? Or some other nearly-divine saint? Hey, maybe Warlock is a good way to allow characters to be bound to ideals instead of deities. An explicitly non-clerical approach with very different casting as a result.

However, if I had to use Sorcerer, I'd swap the Sorcerer's spell list with the Cleric's if the character were a Favored Soul. Ain't no way you're getting lightning bolt, ice storm, stinking cloud, cloudkill, and fear from being the chosen one of a good deity of healing.

I think the reasoning behind this was based on some of the more recent Forgotten Realms novels.

Cattie-Bri is a Favored Soul in recent Drizzt novels, casts like a Sorcerer but gets heals from Meilikki.

 

[Bacon Bits]

I think the reasoning behind this was based on some of the more recent Forgotten Realms novels.

Cattie-Bri is a Favored Soul in recent Drizzt novels, casts like a Sorcerer but gets heals from Meilikki.

That strikes me as possibly the worst reasoning I can imagine. First of all, novels should be non-canon as far as the game mechanics are concerned. I mean, Drizzt ran around with bracers of speed on his legs because the author already had something in his boots and arms slot. That doesn't mean bracers should be added as legs items. Second, it may have simply been the author misunderstanding the description for the class in 3.x, which, IIRC, basically says the class is "a cleric that casts like a sorcerer", and taking that in the most literal meaning possible.

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

Wild is pretty strong. Do not underestimate advantage on, effectively, every single non-cantrip spell attack made, and often cantrips. They simply do not miss. The wild sorcerer in my party has missed once with non-cantrips over 8 sessions so far. That's with twinning generously. Also, she has almost killed the party with surges twice, but has absolutely destroyed enemies with wild surges as well.

I can see how people may not like the flavor or the randomness, but they are powerhouses.

The effectiveness of Tides of Chaos has high built-in table variance. It depends very much on how often your DM has you roll for wild surges.

 

[CapnZapp]

Almost all wild mage power comes from advantage. It can be a powerful subclass if:
a) your DM lets you Wild Surge often, so you gain advantage after casting almost all your spells. With a less generous DM, choose another subclass.
b) the game has more spells with attacks (as opposed to forcing foes to save against your spells). The PHB simply does not to this.
c) Equally important: how often do your DM grant advantage in general? In a generous game, where good role-playing, the inspiration mechanic, aid another, etcetera hands out advantage left and right, well, there goes your edge down the drain. Just play another subclass and still enjoy the Wild Mage's main benefit for free, without even having to endure any surges!

This combined with the absence of any really "wild" random spells makes me say: hold off playing this subclass until more support becomes available.

 

[Kryx]

For anyone interested I created a list of Draconic Bloodline and Wild Mage spells.

See my Google Docs on 5e Sorcerous Origins
or the discussion we had on GiantITP

I use the storm sorc's model of 2 per level except the 9th level at which point is 1 spell. I added a slot at 11th as well for a total of 10, but people can ignore the 11th level one if they want.

 

[CrusaderX]

For anyone interested I created a list of Draconic Bloodline and Wild Mage spells.

See my Google Docs on 5e Sorcerous Origins
or the discussion we had on GiantITP

I use the storm sorc's model of 2 per level except the 9th level at which point is 1 spell. I added a slot at 11th as well for a total of 10, but people can ignore the 11th level one if they want.

This looks great. Nice job!

 

[gyor]

I really looked the Sorceror again and looked at Favoured Soul again and its not as bad as I feared.

With Quicken Spell metamagic and twin spell you can really Nova.

Drow is the best, you have the right stats for dex melee and charisma spell casting, Rapier gives you a descent melee weapon to start and more magic.

You can do stuff like attack an enemy twice with your rapier, cast a quickened haste and attack him again. It has the feel of the Eldrich Knight, but techniquely divine magic (I think the this was intended for the sorceror the whole time, unlike Bards, Wizards, and Warlocks, no where in the Sorceror's discription does it say arcane magic, they left it open for Favoured Soul and possible Psion).

 

[Parmandur]

I really looked the Sorceror again and looked at Favoured Soul again and its not as bad as I feared.



With Quicken Spell metamagic and twin spell you can really Nova.



Drow is the best, you have the right stats for dex melee and charisma spell casting, Rapier gives you a descent melee weapon to start and more magic.



You can do stuff like attack an enemy twice with your rapier, cast a quickened haste and attack him again. It has the feel of the Eldrich Knight, but techniquely divine magic (I think the this was intended for the sorceror the whole time, unlike Bards, Wizards, and Warlocks, no where in the Sorceror's discription does it say arcane magic, they left it open for Favoured Soul and possible Psion).

They don't use the Arcane/Divine distinction anymore; that's just fluff now, on a now subclass by subclass basis.

 

[Celtavian]

I tried speccing a Favored Soul. Looks like it could be fun. It seems about as good as the dragon archetype. Main thing is the better armor. You still don't want to get in melee combat with d6 hit points. The bonus spell lists are nice. I don't think they are such powerful additions that it makes the other options not worthwhile. You don't get to pick them. The extra attack feature is nearly worthless. You have to focus on a stat other than charisma to take advantage of the Extra Attack feature. Favored Soul seems fairly well balanced.