FAVORED SOUL: This doesn't seem right...

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Nail said:
I agree that this is what they do.

But as Evocation spells, #3, #4, and #6 go away. Won't that make them balanced? I'm interested in your opinion. (My players never use the orb spells, even at very high level.)

They would be more balanced.

However, they are still very potent anti-Rogue spells. Sure, Rogues have higher touch ACs than most PCs, but that is practically their only defense against Orbs.

No Evasion or Improved Evasion. No Reflex save.

And since it is so easy to Sudden Empower or Sudden Maximize (or even normal Empower or Maximize the Orb spells), the only thing a Rogue might have working for him is some form of Miss Chance or Protection From Energy. Otherwise, he is probably toast (most if not all of his hit points without any form of save). And the saves for them are Fort saves (which if missed, partially take the Rogue out for the following round). Fort saves are not exactly a Rogue's forte.

Even as Evocation spells, they are still pretty juiced up if metamagicked, at least against Rogues (and probably many Arcane casters).

And, one Empowered Orb in 21 will even auto-take out most Fighters in a single shot (unless he is protected by magic or somewhat higher than 15th level).
 

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Elephant said:
What's the hardness and hit points of water? Of air?

Or can Conjuration: Creation only create *solid* objects?

You are confusing real world objects with DND objects. Objects in DND have hardness and hit points.

Hardness: Each object has hardness—a number that represents how well it resists damage. Whenever an object takes damage, subtract its hardness from the damage. Only damage in excess of its hardness is deducted from the object’s hit points (see Table: Common Armor, Weapon, and Shield Hardness and Hit Points; Table: Substance Hardness and Hit Points; and Table: Object Hardness and Hit Points).

Hit Points: An object’s hit point total depends on what it is made of and how big it is (see Table: Common Armor, Weapon, and Shield Hardness and Hit Points; Table: Substance Hardness and Hit Points; and Table: Object Hardness and Hit Points). When an object’s hit points reach 0, it’s ruined.

Very large objects have separate hit point totals for different sections.

Acid is not a DND object. It is a DND effect (DMG page 302).

Fire is not a DND object. It is a DND effect.


Air and Water are not explicitly defined as effects, but they are not objects. They do not have hardness and hit points. And they can have effects (Wind, Drowning, etc.).
 
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KarinsDad said:
1) Sometimes do more average damage than 5th level Cone of Cold because they have no saving throw for half damage and no spell resistance.
Offering no save against the damage is consistent with the way touch spells work, not something unique to the orbs. They don't offer SR, which is really what makes them potent single-target direct damage spells. Drawing a comparison to CoC is an odd choice, as it is a big ol' AoE designed to damage foes by the bushel. A single-target spell should affect single targets more effectively than an AoE.

2) Since they have a roll to hit, they can critical for double damage.
Again, nothing special about the orbs there. The same is true of any spell that makes an attack roll. Are you just suggesting spells shouldn't utilize attack rolls?

3) Damage Golems.
Well, any spell that isn't stopped by SR affects golems. Rakshasas too. This is ground already covered in #1, so this is redundant.

4) Bust through Antimagic Fields.
Not so.

"The space within this barrier is impervious to most magical effects, including spells, spell-like abilities, and supernatural abilities. Likewise, it prevents the functioning of any magic items or spells within its confines. An antimagic field suppresses any spell or magical effect used within, brought into, or cast into the area, but does not dispel it."

Cast an orb in an AMF, and it's suppressed.

5) Ignore Evasion and Improved Evasion.
Also already stated in #1.

6) Create permanent Orb "objects" (effects?) which have no hardness and no hit points, so there is no known way to destroy them except possibly Disintegrate.
The spell's duration is instantaneous. The electricity discharges, the fire burns the way fire is wont to do, the acid spills away...I suspect few groups ever have practical problems with adjudicating this.

Practically the only defenses against them are a Miss Chance or the fact that the caster can roll a 1 on his to hit.
The defense against them is the requisite form of energy resistance, or barring that, hit points. Why do you discount energy resistance, but treat ignoring evasion as a big deal, when the former is much more common amongst monsters, and more easily attained by most PC's (through a spell or item)? Again, you're making these spells sound like they're unique when they just work like so many other spells. The only distinction between these spells and another ranged touch attack (like, say, scorching ray) is the ineffectivenss of SR. So, is that really what this all boils down to? You don't like high direct-damage spells that can't be deflected by SR?
 
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This conversation may or may not be fascinating, but it sure as heck doesn't have anything to do with the Favored Soul. Please take it to a different thread if you like, but I'd like people to stop hijacking this one.

Thank you.
 

Felon said:
Not so.

"The space within this barrier is impervious to most magical effects, including spells, spell-like abilities, and supernatural abilities. Likewise, it prevents the functioning of any magic items or spells within its confines. An antimagic field suppresses any spell or magical effect used within, brought into, or cast into the area, but does not dispel it."

Cast an orb in an AMF, and it's suppressed.

No more than it would supress holy water or a vial of acid should you toss it at a target inside an AMF.
 

I've always compaired Favored Souls to Greek Heroes, such as Hercules or Perseus. These heroes were (seemingly) ordinary people who the gods looked favorably upon. Persues & Hercules probably did not have any special ranks in religion, but that doesn't mean the gods did not look favorably upon them (and yes, some worked against them).
 


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