D&D 1E Favorite Obscure Rules from TSR-era D&D

[MuhVerisimilitude]

So I wasn't going to do this at first, since this is a lot. But I just had one of my players claim that the worst rules subsystem ever printed was 3e's grappling system. Here's my "sweet summer child" reply (and yes, it's technically cheating to put every subsystem you could use to incapacitate someone non-lethally without striking them with a weapon, but how could I post one without the others?):
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A few paragraphs into the System II description and my eyes glaze over. This is hilariously bad.

 

[the Jester]

So I wasn't going to do this at first, since this is a lot. But I just had one of my players claim that the worst rules subsystem ever printed was 3e's grappling system. Here's my "sweet summer child" reply (and yes, it's technically cheating to put every subsystem you could use to incapacitate someone non-lethally without striking them with a weapon, but how could I post one without the others?):
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You really should have poked him with the pummeling, grappling, and overbearing rules in the DMG.

 

[Mannahnin]

So I wasn't going to do this at first, since this is a lot. But I just had one of my players claim that the worst rules subsystem ever printed was 3e's grappling system. Here's my "sweet summer child" reply (and yes, it's technically cheating to put every subsystem you could use to incapacitate someone non-lethally without striking them with a weapon, but how could I post one without the others?):

Yes indeed. The 3rd ed grappling rules are actually quite GOOD, especially by comparison to every other version of unarmed combat rules D&D had up to that point.

The 3.x rules believably simulate the things you would expect grappling to do from consuming fiction and from a casual acquaintance with martial arts and sports involving grappling. They involve a roll to get a hold of someone and a separate step of actually fighting for control/pin or escape. They give the ability to put your hand over someone's mouth, to keep them from shouting an alarm or casting a spell. They give plausible rules for grappling someone and moving them where you want them. They give rules for it being easier for SOMEONE ELSE to stab either combatant while the grapplers are wrapped up and struggling with each other. They give rules for using a dagger or other short weapon IN the grapple.

The 3.x grappling rules are the ONLY set of D&D grappling rules to actually do all this. To let a grappling character do all the things we'd expect to be possible when grappling from real life and fiction.

Of course, the cost for all this verisimilitude is complexity. Unless you had a member of the crew who was really good at memorizing, every time a grapple was initiated you'd have to bust out the rulebook to review the steps and rules again. And, this being 3.x, an optimized character could "break" the system by stacking up huge bonuses to grapple. We had a Druid in one of our campaigns who specialized in grappling people, especially while wildshaped into an increasingly larger and larger series of bears (same guy previously had a Ranger/Drunken Master who also grappled regularly). Between big Strength bonuses and Size bonuses, he was able to wrap up and make helpless increasingly tougher foes. The DM could come up with counters of course, but it was a bit much at points.

4E simplified the hell out of it for playability, ease of use, and balance, but lost the ability to simulate most of the things we see grapplers do in fiction and life. And 5E added a little more back to it, but still much simplified and limited in scope.

By comparison, all the rules 1E had for them are relatively lame and not particularly evocative in effect if you get them to work, and absurdly complex, lengthy, and annoying to use. They make the 3E rules look like a marvel of concision and simplicity by comparison.

 

[Riley]

We found Dragon Magazine’s “Finish Fights Faster” system by Roger E. Moore was a great replacement for AD&D 1e pummeling (And added kicking!). We used it a lot for subdual/city brawling situations.

But it didn’t help us solve grappling.

The Articles of Dragon: "How to Finish Fights Faster"

Along with falling damage, psionics, and alignment, articles about unarmed combat were a commonplace in the pages of Dragon during the years...

grognardia.blogspot.com

 

[James Gasik]

And then there's 2e's system, which randomizes which moves you can perform in unarmed combat (with the Fighter's Handbook offering options to decrease the randomization).

I liked using the 2e rules, but mostly because I'm used to them. I wonder what someone who never used the rules would think about them?

 

[Mannahnin]

And then there's 2e's system, which randomizes which moves you can perform in unarmed combat (with the Fighter's Handbook offering options to decrease the randomization).

I liked using the 2e rules, but mostly because I'm used to them. I wonder what someone who never used the rules would think about them?

Those rules were a simplification/cleanup of the super-janky ones in the 1E DMG, but not great.

 

[overgeeked]

But it didn’t help us solve grappling.

Weirdly, there’s an example of grappling in the DMG examples of play that’s just a d20 check vs AC. We just used that.

 

[Kannik]

And, this being 3.x, an optimized character could "break" the system by stacking up huge bonuses to grapple. We had a Druid in one of our campaigns who specialized in grappling people, especially while wildshaped into an increasingly larger and larger series of bears (same guy previously had a Ranger/Drunken Master who also grappled regularly). Between big Strength bonuses and Size bonuses, he was able to wrap up and make helpless increasingly tougher foes. The DM could come up with counters of course, but it was a bit much at points.

Yeah, frequently we found that the monsters we were fighting broke the system, where even a seemingly smallish +X to grapple (and an auto-grapple chance) would often lead to figurative character dismemberment. Much ouch.

(Given HP is intended as a 'measure towards defeat' system, whether having a different system that can effectively bypass it is a good idea is a whole other conversation...)

And then there's 2e's system, which randomizes which moves you can perform in unarmed combat (with the Fighter's Handbook offering options to decrease the randomization).

I liked using the 2e rules, but mostly because I'm used to them. I wonder what someone who never used the rules would think about them?

I'd be curious to find out as well. We always found it odd, especially for striking, as no other attack type used something like it. It may have added flavour, but it both highlighted how 'regular' attacks were therefore boring/generic, and that it was tied to your attack roll meant your already super minimal damage potential was also potentially further limited.

 

[Riley]

Weirdly, there’s an example of grappling in the DMG examples of play that’s just a d20 check vs AC. We just used that.

In the “It’s okay, Gary sent us” example of play?

 

[overgeeked]

In the “It’s okay, Gary sent us” example of play?

AD&D DMG, p98.

DM: “Yes. Easily, so you take only 1 hit point of damage. While you mark it down, I’ll roll for the spider’s initiative — beat a 3.”

OC: (Again the magic-user.) “A 5. If that means I can act before the spider does, I’ll grab it and throw it on the floor and stamp on it with my boot!”

DM: “Roll a d20, and we’ll see if you hit.” The die score indicates that the magic-user would hit an opponent of the armor class of the large spider, so the DM states: “You grab the spider, but as you do so, you are now allowing the monster to attack you, even though you had the initiative, and it bites at your hand as you hurl it to the floor!” (Amidst groans of horrified anticipation from the players, the DM rolls a d20, but the low number which results indicates a clean miss by the arachnid.) “Yug! The nasty thing misses you, and it is now scuttling along the floor where you tossed it!”