Favorite Race And/Or Template?

[Rystil Arden]

I love Undead characters, but there are better ways to become a Ghost: Have the party Pale Master kill you and raise you as a Shadow, or Ghost with Create Undead. No +ECL with that. =)

You do get the level adjustment from that, although you don't have to waste time levelling up in the monster class unless the DM makes you.

 

[Seeten]

What?? Are you telling me if I level to 10 in a PrC that culminates in "Lich" I add 4 to my LA and have to get the xp for a level 19 character? So the 10th level is also actually the 14th level?? Man, thats weird.

 

[Rystil Arden]

What?? Are you telling me if I level to 10 in a PrC that culminates in "Lich" I add 4 to my LA and have to get the xp for a level 19 character? So the 10th level is also actually the 14th level?? Man, thats weird.

Different case:

1) If you take a transformative PrC to become a lich, the LA is built into the class and you don't get any additional LA (that's why all those transformation PrCs are quite weak beyond the transformation itself).

2) If you do the research to become a lich without taking a PrC and drink the lich potion, you gain the Lich's LA (either immediately if your DM is nice or over the course of the next few levels taken in monster levels if your DM is cruel).

 

[The Human Target]

It's a long-term turtle build. It shines best at ECL 11-12, where the ghost's Malevolence and Telekenisis are at par with a straight Sorceror/Wizard casting Magic Jar and Telekenisis, or at high epic levels, where 5 class levels don't matter too much. Below that, and the Ghost has a 50% or less chance of self-ressurecting (taking 10 fails at CL 5 (DC 16; rolls 1d20 + Ghost's HD)). Above that, a Sor/Wiz can duplicate most/all of the Ghost's abilities (depending on selection of Ghostly abilities and the Sor/Wiz spell list) while the Ghost will be stuck 2-3 levels of spells behind (and 5 caster levels - that 11th level Wiz casting Fireball does 10d6 damage for one of his middle slots, while the ECL 11 ghost is only doing 6d6 for one of his highest slots). Moreover, the Ghost can't use any touch spells (well, at least not without Spectral Hand, Arcane Reach or some other way to avoid the "relying on touch" aspect of touch spells), so isn't nearly so good with party buffs. Even further, it's almost impossible to re-equip the ghost after character creation (Must hire Plane Shift or something) which pretty much rules out anything with costly material components (hence VoP being a good choice).

It's a costly way to go about gaining immortality. Makes for a great scout (go etherial for a standard action .... or rather, go non-etherial for a standard action), and a good recovery expert (always recovers personally, so can regroup and ressurect the others), but makes a poor addition to the combat team; can only self-heal (by using Neutral Cleric levels, rather than Sorceror levels) using a Harm/Inflict spell that won't help the rest of the party one iota.

More than anything else, I just think it would be really fun to play a ghost.

 

[noeuphoria]

No, there are some PRC's that culminate by adding a template w/o the level adjustment (it's assumed that the benefits of the template are taken into account in the overall power lvl of the PrC. For instance, Dragon Disciple level 10 applies the half-dragon template, but the character isn't forced to have the + 3 LA, because the benefits of the template are factored into the PrC. Essentially, you're taking 10 levels in a class to avoid the LA. Same with elemental savant, char becomes and elemental at the end. I'm sure your 'lich' class has the benefit of a similar consideration.

 

[Seeten]

I see. So if you are familiar with Crypt Lord from Relics and Rituals, Rystil, which culminates in Lich at 15th level, (5 Necro +10 Crypt) you dont get an LA, because the text doesnt say to add one, then?

That seems like my reading is correct. However, if Bob the fighter dies, and I create undead him back as a Wight, he's gotta spend his next 8 levels advancing the wight monster class(for 4 total hit dice and hardly any skills or feats). Bleh.

 

[Seeten]

Poor Bob the fighter. Well, I guess its better to be Bob the Fighter who if he ever dies will become Bob the Wight Fighter weakling than Bob the Dead? Hehe.

 

[Lasher Dragon]

I see. So if you are familiar with Crypt Lord from Relics and Rituals, Rystil, which culminates in Lich at 15th level, (5 Necro +10 Crypt) you dont get an LA, because the text doesnt say to add one, then?

That seems like my reading is correct. However, if Bob the fighter dies, and I create undead him back as a Wight, he's gotta spend his next 8 levels advancing the wight monster class(for 4 total hit dice and hardly any skills or feats). Bleh.

I've always assumed that Bob becomes unplayable at his death, even after his undead makeover. After all, when you raise a wight, it's a full wight, not something that has to take 8 levels to become a MM wight.

 

[Shadow_js]

I would have to vote for a Pixie Sorcerer. Improved Invis. plus spell casting. ahh that is a nice combination.

 

[Rystil Arden]

I see. So if you are familiar with Crypt Lord from Relics and Rituals, Rystil, which culminates in Lich at 15th level, (5 Necro +10 Crypt) you dont get an LA, because the text doesnt say to add one, then?

That seems like my reading is correct. However, if Bob the fighter dies, and I create undead him back as a Wight, he's gotta spend his next 8 levels advancing the wight monster class(for 4 total hit dice and hardly any skills or feats). Bleh.

Yup the Crypt Lord has no LA. The Lich LA has been hardwired into the 10-level class by weakening it a bit along the way (or at least that was the intent).

As for Undead sorts that aren't templates (like Bob's wightening), you have a few options:

1) Make into into a template and apply it to him immediately (this creates an undead that keeps its former abilities though!), adding LA

2) Same as (1) except make him take template class levels also

3) Turn him into an average MM Wight, with all the LA entailed, but he loses all his previous levels and such.

4) Turn him into a Level 1 Monster Class Wight (the meanest method)

5) Compromise on (3) and (4) (possibly better than 3 if he is higher than 8th-level) by converting fighter levels into monster class levels until you run out. If you run out of fighter levels first, stop in the middle of the Monster Class. If you run out of Wight levels first, add the extra fighter levels (this creates an undead that keeps some of its former abilities)