Fear conditions

[hong]

I get annoyed at fear making people run away. So I'm going to change it.

Shaken: -2 to all d20 rolls (saves, attacks, skill checks)

Frightened: -6 to all d20 rolls

Panicked: -10 to all d20 rolls

You can remove these effects by moving so that you no longer have line of sight to whatever caused you to be scared. Once you no longer have LOS, you can spend a full-round action to remove these penalties. Of course, nothing prevents you from getting scared again.

Thoughts?

 

[Nifft]

Shaken: -2 to all d20 rolls (saves, attacks, skill checks)

Frightened: -6 to all d20 rolls

Panicked: -10 to all d20 rolls

You can remove these effects by moving so that you no longer have line of sight to whatever caused you to be scared. Once you no longer have LOS, you can spend a full-round action to remove these penalties. Of course, nothing prevents you from getting scared again.

Looks neat. I like it. I'd add that these penalties do affect damage rolls, too. Which is why even quite a lot of peasants just can't hurt a dragon -- even when they hit (on a 20), they don't do more than 6 or 10 points of damage.

I'd also let the full-round action give you a new Will save a the original DC. You can automatically make this save by "taking 20", but you may be out of sight for a couple of minutes. You would not suffer a Fear Penalty on this save.

Also, look at the fear-generating entries -- a lot of monster entries have language that say you are immune for 24 hours once you save. Your variant would remove that language, right?

Maybe remove fear should grant a new save instead of suppressing fear, or should lower your fear penalty by one step, in addition to granting the +4 bonus?

Cheers, -- N

 

[jasin]

Heroes of Horror did something similar, changing "frightened" from "run away" to "-4 to everything". They kept panicked as "run away".

I think I like their system better: IIRC, most stuff just frightens you anway, and I think I like having a condition for blind mindless fear if I need it.

But if I were playing in a game, and the DM said we were using your variant, I'd have absolutely no problem with it, so it's all good.

As a neutral comment, it's worth noting that this makes fear less boring, but probably more deadly. In RAW, a panicked character runs away so he's less likely to be targetted further, and even if prevented from fleeing, he only suffers a -2 penalty to stuff. Under your rules, getting panicked and suffering -10 to saves means you could very easily finished off by some sort of save-or-else effect you'd otherwise just laugh off.

 

[jasin]

Looks neat. I like it. I'd add that these penalties do affect damage rolls, too. Which is why even quite a lot of peasants just can't hurt a dragon -- even when they hit (on a 20), they don't do more than 6 or 10 points of damage.

I wouldn't extend it to damage purely for simplicity, since shaken doesn't penalize to damage either.

And I'm not worrying about dragons. Most peasants don't have the magic weapons to bypass DR anyway.

I'd also let the full-round action give you a new Will save a the original DC.

I think I like that better than auto-success.

You can automatically make this save by "taking 20", but you may be out of sight for a couple of minutes. You would not suffer a Fear Penalty on this save.

No fear penalty on the take 20, or no fear penalty on the new Will save?

 

[Nifft]

No fear penalty on the take 20, or no fear penalty on the new Will save?

The latter. And good point on the damage rolls.

Cheers, -- N

 

[hong]

As a neutral comment, it's worth noting that this makes fear less boring, but probably more deadly. In RAW, a panicked character runs away so he's less likely to be targetted further, and even if prevented from fleeing, he only suffers a -2 penalty to stuff.

Er, no; a panicked character who's cornered cowers, and can't do anything. You're thinking of frightened.

Under your rules, getting panicked and suffering -10 to saves means you could very easily finished off by some sort of save-or-else effect you'd otherwise just laugh off.

Right. A smart player will run anyway, to avoid the character getting squished while they're debilitated. But at least it's their decision.

 

[hong]

I'd also let the full-round action give you a new Will save a the original DC. You can automatically make this save by "taking 20", but you may be out of sight for a couple of minutes. You would not suffer a Fear Penalty on this save.

Also, look at the fear-generating entries -- a lot of monster entries have language that say you are immune for 24 hours once you save. Your variant would remove that language, right?

No, that stays. Having to save every round sounds like a colossal pain. The immunity would also apply if you run away but come back, because the spectacle of someone running, coming back, then running again, is just a bit silly.

WRT rerolling the save once you're out of sight: I was thinking of that, but there are some cases where there's no save -- mostly monster auras against very low-level fodder. But on second thought, it isn't that big a deal. If you're that low level, you have no business being not scared.

 

[CleverNickName]

I like this rule. I never thought it was cool to "force" characters to run away...good players know a hopeless situation when they see one, and they always consider a tactical retreat to be a viable option in battle. There's no need to make someone run.

And if I'm at -10 to hit and saves, staring down the smoldering nostrils of a red dragon, you can bet your sweet axe that I'll be running away on my very next action. Only the incredibly brave (read: stupid) would try to fight while under that kind of penalty.

Compulsions would have to be handled differently, though, since compulsions (by definition) are supposed to make you do something you might not want to do. But that aside, I think this would work out great.

 

[Nifft]

No, that stays. Having to save every round sounds like a colossal pain. The immunity would also apply if you run away but come back, because the spectacle of someone running, coming back, then running again, is just a bit silly.

WRT rerolling the save once you're out of sight: I was thinking of that, but there are some cases where there's no save -- mostly monster auras against very low-level fodder. But on second thought, it isn't that big a deal. If you're that low level, you have no business being not scared.

Good point. It would be comical... which might be fun to narrate, or even watch, but not to play.

Now, what about the remove fear spell? IMHO it should remove ONE category of Fear automatically, and allow an immediate save to remove the whole condition, plus grant a +4 morale bonus on future saves. (As opposed to now, where it automatically removes fear, plus grants a +4 morale bonus on future saves.)

Cheers, -- N

 

[Primitive Screwhead]

I too like this since it puts the choice into the players hands..

"The immunity would also apply if you run away but come back, because the spectacle of someone running, coming back, then running again, is just a bit silly."

Depends on how you narrate it. Joe the fighter runs away and hides behind a boulder. He huffs and puffs, focuses himself and says a prayer to Grog to protect himself.. reinforced by this mental preparation he bolts back into the fray...but is overcome by the sight of the Dragon rending Fred in half and jumps back behind the boulder into 'safety'...

Now, perhaps the second exposure increases the DC to recover...meaning its less likely Joe will be able to muster up the courage to try again..but a valiant hero just might try.

"Also, look at the fear-generating entries -- a lot of monster entries have language that say you are immune for 24 hours once you save. Your variant would remove that language, right?"

I would edit this mildly by adding just a footnote that recovering from fear is not saving against the monster.

Nifft, your remove fear concept looks sound to me.