D&D 5E Feat at 1st Level: How To Go About It?

[Hrothgar Rannúlfr]

[MENTION=22226]Hrothgar Rannulfr[/MENTION] . What a cool name BTW. So, did you settle on a decision? It seems the thread has been derailed into a For Feats VS Bad Feats... Like so many other threads these days... I hope some of the advice was useful and I would like to hear which way you went and why. Cheers.

Hi, Connorsrpg,

Thank you. The name is Nordic and roughly means Famous Spear Rim (of a shield) Wolf.

I found quite a bit of the advice useful. And, I'm glad that many options were presented that I hadn't thought of as well as what folks had to share about their experiences with offering a feat a first level.

I'm leery of altering the the power level of the game at first level, but I do like what feats have to offer in terms of customization. And, I'd like that customization to show up at first level. However, I don't want any 1st level character's scores to exceed the normal threshold of 17 (15 via point buy and +2 racial). I also don't want to force everyone to choose a feat if they don't want it.

So, here's what I'm going to do.

• Standard 27 Point Buy (scores between 8 and 15)
• Standard Racial Adjustments (and Variant Human is on the Table)
• Bonus Feat or Ability Score Increase (+2 to one score or +1 to two scores, but this may not raise any score above 17)

• If a player doesn't want their character to have either an Ability Score Boost or a feat at first level, they may apply it at a later time so long as it is applied before the character reaches 4th level.​

This avoids messing with the point-buy values (which may not come out quite as fair as I'd like) while only offering a slight power increase (which I think I'm comfortable with) and still allowing a feat, but not forcing a feat on every one (if they don't want it). It allows for marginally higher scores (if a feat is not selected), but the cap keeps it within acceptable boundaries (for me). Overall, this errs toward the side of letting the player's have a little more versatility in building their characters, while allowing those that don't want feats to take that option, if they choose.

 

[Hrothgar Rannúlfr]

Bottom line is, if you want to give your players more toys to play with, then give them all extra feat at first level.
More stuff to play with, more fun.

If you think that it will make encounters too easy just throw handfull of mooks more to every challenge.

Hell, give them 32point buy and two bonus feats and say to them; consider yourselves "level adjustment +1".

imagine the terror of first level characters vs a polar(cave) bear that is CR2 and deals 22 damage per round.


you can give players as many toys as you/they like/want. it's up to you to make challenges for them.

I like this idea for a game that mimics how characters in the stories the game is based on seem to be good at a lot of things without necessarily being high level (Conan seems to have a lot of feats/skills and high scores, but is arguably never more than 5th or 6th level in any tale).

 

[jgsugden]

When I started 5E, I gave the players the option of using 4d6 best 3 with reordering of stats for character generation, or 4d6 best 3 with you using the stats in order and getting a bonus feat. Almost everyone took the bonus feat.

And it was a bad idea. The first feat you gain gives you a pretty good power bonus. Having it in addition to the other abilities of a first level PC is a pretty huge bonus. I realized pretty quickly it was upsetting balance and removed the option.

Feats are fun, but my advice is to not give it for free at first level - but instead to rush people to 4th level to get them that feat.

 

[Horwath]

When I started 5E, I gave the players the option of using 4d6 best 3 with reordering of stats for character generation, or 4d6 best 3 with you using the stats in order and getting a bonus feat. Almost everyone took the bonus feat.

And it was a bad idea. The first feat you gain gives you a pretty good power bonus. Having it in addition to the other abilities of a first level PC is a pretty huge bonus. I realized pretty quickly it was upsetting balance and removed the option.

Feats are fun, but my advice is to not give it for free at first level - but instead to rush people to 4th level to get them that feat.

I think that you made only mistake that you gave feat to someone and didn't to someone else.

Also the rolling part is a problem in itself.
If someone gets lucky and gets 4-5 points more than someone else and a feat on top of that, he will be overpowered in comparison. Having stats rolled in order or rearranged. When we used to roll for stats the results were ridiculous. Sum of stats ranged from 70 to 90 in total.

Give everyone same point buy pool and a bonus feat and you will not see any imbalance(more or less ).

 

[Connorsrpg]

If you want the versatility of feats at first level, go for it. Seriously, who cares that much about balance. It was not even a concept in the game for years. You just created encounters based on what would 'be there'. Players then decide whether the fight is worth it, or, run away, whatever.

If balance is a concern for you, then of course you could easily adjust encounters to suit the extra power of feats. That is kind of a null argument to not include feats at 1st level. If you are happy with PCs having feats at 1st level, obviously they are a little more powerful, so throw more powerful encounters at them, if you care for balance.

In any case, 'balance' should not be a reason to pull the pin on your idea. If players like it, and you are happy with it, go for it, no matter what system you use to get there.

 

[dmnqwk]

Most feats are not really "Versatility" they are power extensions of a goal the character has.

A 1st Level Ranger who is going to use a Bow gains a LOT of power from sharpshooter - but it doesn't change how they are played. Likewise a Fighter with a Polearm is not changed by the Polearm master, they are still themselves. Or a non-combat feat if they took Tough, Resilient, Defensive Duelist, Alert etc. These don't change the character, just add to their power level.

A few feats, such as ritual caster or tavern brawler, may seem like they give a cool extra option but ultimately the character is not changed in their identity. I don't think giving feats at 1st level will make a person endear themselves to playing in a completely different style, so offering them this as a cool extra perk is the same as letting a Rogue begin with medium armour and shield proficiency (which, incidentally, is a feat!). And suddenly the rogue now has +2 AC while the Ranger took Sharpshooter, the Mage took Tough for extra hit points and the Paladin decided on heavy armour mastery for the +1 strength to bump him to 18, while also snagging a 3 point damage reduction.

Feats are predominantly for extra combat power, with a few sprinkled in that help outside combat, so allowing them at 1st will cause power creep and make your job as a DM tougher, with little to no gain for the fun your players have.

 

[slaughterj]

I haven't read past the first page, but since practically speaking hardly anyone gets to level 19-20, I have considered giving every PC their level 19 ABI much earlier, possibly first level, possibly second (to at least let the variant humans have the benefit of being the only ones to actually start with a feat), and they could take the +2 or a feat, their choice. This would only be done for PCs who use the stat array or point-buy, not dice-rolling, for a variety of reasons.

 

[slaughterj]

Another option might be to list the feats that you never see anyone take, and let everyone have a free one of those to start.

 

[jgsugden]

I think that you made only mistake that you gave feat to someone and didn't to someone else.

Also the rolling part is a problem in itself.
If someone gets lucky and gets 4-5 points more than someone else and a feat on top of that, he will be overpowered in comparison. Having stats rolled in order or rearranged. When we used to roll for stats the results were ridiculous. Sum of stats ranged from 70 to 90 in total.

Give everyone same point buy pool and a bonus feat and you will not see any imbalance(more or less ).

All agreed, but with the exception that giving the feats to PCs at foirst level for free gives them extra offensive power in the same way that rolled stats that are too strong does. You're better off just thinking of levels of 1 to 3 as apprentice levels and rushing PCs to level 4 than giving them feats at level 1.

 

[dmnqwk]

If you're simply wanting to give players a taste of feats at earlier levels, here's a suggestion you could try:
For levels 1 through 4, the players get to roll on a special table (listed below, D20 roll) and are granted a divine blessing, in the shape of a random effect. Once they hit 5th level the power system should move to a point they have sufficient abilities and such (3rd level spells, extra attack etc) it's unnecessary to continue (though feel free to do so) and it might add a bit of excitement with them wanting to level up to get a new random affect.

At 1st level, and every subsequent level you choose to use it (my recommendation is for levels 1 through 4) they roll a d20 and consult the table below.
1 = Your race temporarily changes to a new one (as determined by the reincarnate spell table). You retain all racial traits and perks, but also gain access to any granted by your new race (eg an Elf who is changed into a Halfling retains his proficiency in perception, but now gains lucky.)
2 - 3 = You gain +4 to your lowest attribute. If 2 or more abilities are tied you gain +4 to each of them.
4 - 7 = You gain +2 to your highest attribute. If 2 or more are tied, you gain +2 to each of them.
8 - 13 = You may choose any feat, provided you meet the minimum requirements.
14 - 16 = You may choose any feat, including those you do not qualify for. (eg if you're a rogue you may pick heavy armour proficiency)
17 - 19 = Choose an ability score. You have advantage with all ability checks relating to that attribute.
20 = You gain access to 1 ability from another class. The ability may not come from a class archetype, and must be of a level you are capable of learning (eg a 2nd level Fighter could take a Monk's unarmoured defense, but could not take their deflect arrows).

If you wish to extend it to a more robust system feel free to do so, maybe including things such as "You may take a second bonus action in a turn, but suffer 1d6 nosebleed damage from the giddy heights of speed" or "While not wearing pants, creatures have disadvantage on their first attack roll against you each turn. (please note heavy armour and half plate are incompatible with this due to their provided leg protection counting as pants.)"