Feat descriptions needed

[shilsen]

I don't have T&B on me, and need some information about the Persistent Spell and Eschew Materials feats. Specifically the following questions:

1) What kind of spells can Persistent Spell be applied to? I remember that it applies to spells with a target of Personal, but am not sure whether it also applies to Touch spells.

2) Does Eschew Materials have to be applied to a spell when preparing it (and does that take up a higher level slot)? I think not, but can't remember.

Thanks, in advance.

 

[Henrix]

1) Personal or fixed range, like Detect Magic.

2) Yes (and no). Which means that you have to prepare a spell specifically, but it does not take up a higher slot, so you could easily do it with all your spells.

 

[shilsen]

Thanks. I presume the fixed range (for Persistent Spell) rules out spells with a touch range. I'd seen some characters posted on these boards that had Persistent Bull's Strength, etc., and thought that shouldn't work. Am I right?

 

[Henrix]

The feat is a bit poorly worded.

In the FAQ the Sage says:

Would spells that have touch range, such as spell
resistance, be considered to have a fixed range, and therefore be usable with the Persistent Spell feat?
No. Range touch is not "fixed" for purposes of the Persistent Spell feat. The spell must affect the caster's person (personal range) or have some effect that radiates from the caster's person (a fixed range, expressed in feet).

But saying "fixed range" could include attack spells. I think I have seen WotC spells in supplements that do not follow the close/medium/long range format, and I have certainly seen d20 spells that do.

I think one best should try to follow the Sage's intention, and say that the spell must be one that affects the caster.

But Bull's Strength, provided that it is cast on yourself, sure, why not?
It becomes a 6th level spell, which means you must be at least 11th level wizard. At that level you could Extend it (as a 3rd level spell) to last 22 hours.

 

[shilsen]

But Bull's Strength, provided that it is cast on yourself, sure, why not?
It becomes a 6th level spell, which means you must be at least 11th level wizard. At that level you could Extend it (as a 3rd level spell) to last 22 hours.

Allowing spells as long as they are cast on yourself opens up a lot of situations I would not care for. Such as Persistent Haste (yikes!). As with many feats, I guess this just comes down to some agreement between DM and player about how it is to be interpreted.

 

[Henrix]

Allowing spells as long as they are cast on yourself opens up a lot of situations I would not care for. Such as Persistent Haste (yikes!).

True, we would not want that. Persistent Spell is a troublesome feat.

 

[Bobbystopholes]

So, from DotF, Bear's Heart, Blessed Aim, Divine Flame, Divine Sacrifice, Divine Zephyr, All the Aspects of the Diety (including Greater for the Epics), Recitation, Righteous Wrath of the Faithful, Weapon of the Diety, and Zeal... criminy... can be made Persistent.

They all have fixed ranges emanating, etc. from the caster or they have personal range, etc. While most of them are totally impractical, they are still pretty damn nuts!

While they may seem a bit over powered, some (like Blessed Aim) require you to concentrate to give your buddies the bonus (so you can't cast anything while you do it), are useless at the level you can finally get them, or are for Paladins who would never waste the feats on Metamagics.

Not over powered at all. The only one that might be would be Greater Aspect of the Diety since it's Ability bonuses stack with all others (unnamed), but at 24th level or so, if you are trying to get a persistent GAD, plus Tensor's Transformation, etc. etc. you are wasting your time.

I like the feat. You give some, you get some.

 

[strongbow]

Haste has a range of Close, not Touch, and therefore cannot be made Persistent.

Also, from this very website , at http://www.d20reviews.com/Eric/3esettings.htm under Forgotten Realms about 1/2 the way into FR.

Persistent Spell Feat: A Persistent Spell (feat from the FRCS and Tome & Blood) must have a "personal range or a fixed range." So is a touch spell a "fixed range" spell? Skip Williams clarifies: "For persistant spell, personal range is "fixed", touch is not."

Skip's Answer leaves no room for creative license, for those who actually try to abide by designer intent. (Skip Williams is one of the three named authors on the cover of the PHB.)

Edited to include link.

 

[shilsen]

Haste has a range of Close, not Touch, and therefore cannot be made Persistent.

Thanks. I missed that. Either way, according to the Sage ruling in the FAQ, spells with a Touch range can't be used with Persistent Spell, and I like that ruling.

 

[Marshall]

But I want to see a Persistant Burning Hands...