Feat Problems With PHB II

[shilsen]

Exactly. You can't examine feats in a vaccuum. It's important to keep in mind prereqs and requirements. A lot of the feats, for instance, are only available at fairly high levels, and serve (for instance) to bring fighters back into relative balance with the high-level spellcasting classes.

What he said. One of the reasons I like a lot of feats in this book that I might otherwise think are overpowered is because they'll make the high-level single-classed fighter a worthwhile concept. A lot of the feats are only really good in combination with a bunch of others, and you'll need a high level fighter's bonus feats to be able to get them all and have some other options. Sure, there are a couple of feats I'm iffy about allowing or might tweak the prerequisites on, but on the whole I think they're a pretty good collection.

 

[KarinsDad]

In all fairness, most of these feats are high level, high prerequisite feats. Several are specifically for high-level fighters only.

In all fairness, most of these feats (14 out of 19 can be acquired at 9th or lower level) are low to mid level (average 7th level), low prerequisite feats (average 1 feat and 1 other ability/skill/feat/BAB).

Acrobatic Strike: Level 9, 1 skill prereq
Crossbow Sniper: Level 3, 1 feat prereq
Cunning Evasion: Level 6, 1 skill, 1 feat prereq
Defensive Sweep: Level 15, 1 BAB prereq
Elven Spell Lore: Level 9, 1 skill, 1 ability score prereq
Fiery Ki Defense: Level 12 (Level 9 dual class), 3 feat (2 which many Monks get), 2 ability scores prereq
Hindering Opportunist: Level 3, 1 feat, 1 BAB prereq
Indomitable Soul: Level 3, 2 feat prereq
Keen Eared Scout: Level 3, 1 feat, 1 ability score prereq
Leap of the Heavens: Level 1, 1 skill prereq
Mad Foam Rager: Level 1, 1 ability prereq
Melee Weapon Mastery: Level 8, 2 feats prereq
Overwhelming Assault: Level 15, 1 BAB prereq
Ranged Weapon Mastery: Level 8, 2 feats prereq
Shield Ward: Level 1, 2 feats prereq
Telling Blow: Level 3, 1 ability prereq
Vexing Flanker: Level 1, 1 feat prereq
Water Splitting Stone: Level 12, 2 feat (both of which many Monks get), 2 ability scores, 1 BAB prereq
Weapon Supremacy:Level 18, 5 feat, 1 BAB prereq


Melee and Ranged Weapon Mastery are also designed to encourage low level Fighters to take a different class. They get 4 levels of Fighter and then move on and do better with this one feat than if they took both Greater Weapon Focus and Greater Weapon Specialization as two feats.

 

[Seeten]

Actually, I hadnt noticed this, but, you don't even need 4 levels of fighter. My paladin qualifies for Melee Weapon Mastery at level 8, fighter 1(focus) paladin 4, pious templar 3(weapon spec) and then at level 9, melee weapon mastery. Kind of exciting, means instead of being a 1 trick pony, I can use any slashing weapon with my good bonuses, so since we random roll up loot, if suddenly a crazy scimitar drops, I can use it, instead of needing to sell it.

 

[Ditch]

Ranged sneak attack is so hard to abuse that the extra 30 ft. shouldn't be overbalanced. I once grouped with a rogue that did nothing but ranged damage and he rarely got off a sneak attack after the initial combat round (not counting suprise rounds with great initiative rolls). It wasn't until my wizard could finally cast Improved Invis that he began to shine and the DM was quick to utilize everything under the sun to stop that combo (faerie fire, see invis, glitterdust, etc. etc. x100).

To sneak attack you gotta deny them their dex vs. you or flank. Toss out flanking with a crossbow.

 

[Seeten]

Queue up Patryn with ranged Crossbow flanking thread.

 

[Nail]

Oh, let's not go there with this thread. Please?

...'Cause I'm still "on th' fence" about plopping down some money to buy the PH II.....

 

[Shellman]

Telling Blow: Actually I don't think this increases SA damage at all. It only allows SA damage to apply upon confirming a crit.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Acrobatic Strike: +4 to hit against opponent you just Tumbled successfully past (the list states +6 which is even worse, what is it with recent WotC editing?).

Egads! A single attack (with bonus SA damage) at an attack bonus of +1 more than the equivalently level fighter (assuming otherwise equal stats, which is a huge stretch)! How astonishingly overpowered!

Crossbow Sniper

Crossbows. The most underutilized ranged weapons in the game - the ones where you only get one shot per round without spending another feat on them.

On that basis alone, it's fine.

Cunning Evasion: Can move 5 feet and hide as immediate action after successful Evasion.

Well, if your above summary is correct, then your questions are irrelevant. This isn't a 5' step, and therefore does not need to follow the rules on 5' steps.

The only potential point of confusion is: if the character were to take advantage of this feat, could he take a 5' step on his next turn? The answer seems to be no: "You can move 5 feet in any round when you don’t perform any other kind of movement." (SRD, Combat Basics)

This concept that characters can suddenly do the equivalent of Move Actions (or part of a movement action) as an Immediate Action is just plain bogus.

Yeah, and heaven forbid that characters be able do the equivalent of Standard Actions (or parts of standard actions) as an Immediate action - like casting a spell!

Oh, wait ...

Fiery Ki Defense:

Because, as we all know, the Fire Shielded wizard never gets hit in combat.

Hindering Opportunist: Replace AoO with an Aid Another action. Why would any character take this feat?

Because I'm turtling up in combat to make the monster miss me and waste its attacks. Unfortunately, because of the combined Improved Combat Expertise and Fighting Defensively penalties, I can't hit the broad side of a level-appropriate barn.

I sure as heck can hit AC 10, however, which gives the guy I'm helping flank a bigger bonus on his AoO.

Highly situational? Yes.

Possibly fun anyway? Yes.

And, lowering the DC to that of a running jump? Totally broken.

I really don't see how you could seriously argue this.

For example, a Keen Rapier crits on a 15 or higher, so with the proper other magic/feats, the D6 damage of the Rapier itself is irrelevant when the 7th level Rogue

The base weapon damage becomes a heckuva lot more irrelevant a lot sooner than that.

Vexing Flanker:

Well-designed feat. Small bonus all the time vs. larger bonus some of the time is a good design mantra, present in nearly all aspects of the rules.

 

[KarinsDad]

Telling Blow: Actually I don't think this increases SA damage at all. It only allows SA damage to apply upon confirming a crit.

You may be correct.

If so, it increases the times when SA damage applies.

 

[KarinsDad]

Egads! A single attack (with bonus SA damage) at an attack bonus of +1 more than the equivalently level fighter (assuming otherwise equal stats, which is a huge stretch)! How astonishingly overpowered!

When combined with Flanking and Sneak Attacks, ensuring that you hit is powerful.

Rogues often use a single attack in a round because Sneak Attack damage is only usable once per round. This allows them to nearly ensure a hit with it as well.

Crossbows. The most underutilized ranged weapons in the game - the ones where you only get one shot per round without spending another feat on them.

On that basis alone, it's fine.

I agree that crossbows need improvement. But, a feat is not the way to do it. The way to do it is to give them a bonus to hit due to their stability and allow them to be Mighty just like other bows.

Well, if your above summary is correct, then your questions are irrelevant. This isn't a 5' step, and therefore does not need to follow the rules on 5' steps.

The only potential point of confusion is: if the character were to take advantage of this feat, could he take a 5' step on his next turn? The answer seems to be no: "You can move 5 feet in any round when you don’t perform any other kind of movement." (SRD, Combat Basics)

It is a 5 foot step in the feat. So, how about if he moved before this in the current round?

Yeah, and heaven forbid that characters be able do the equivalent of Standard Actions (or parts of standard actions) as an Immediate action - like casting a spell!

Oh, wait ...

Spells are seriously crippled as Immediate Actions. These feats are not.

Because, as we all know, the Fire Shielded wizard never gets hit in combat.

I said this one was not potent. Just stupid.

Because I'm turtling up in combat to make the monster miss me and waste its attacks. Unfortunately, because of the combined Improved Combat Expertise and Fighting Defensively penalties, I can't hit the broad side of a level-appropriate barn.

I sure as heck can hit AC 10, however, which gives the guy I'm helping flank a bigger bonus on his AoO.

Highly situational? Yes.

Possibly fun anyway? Yes.

Probably not. Again, stupid, not potent.

I really don't see how you could seriously argue this.

I compared it to Skill Focus where it totally kicks butt. I really don't see how you could seriously argue against this.

The base weapon damage becomes a heckuva lot more irrelevant a lot sooner than that.

Like Shellman pointed out, that may not be how it works.

Well-designed feat. Small bonus all the time vs. larger bonus some of the time is a good design mantra, present in nearly all aspects of the rules.

Except that the smaller bonus is limited to a single weapon as opposed to all weapons as well. Two advantages versus one is not necessarily good design. But, this is not an overwhelmingly unbalanced feat, just borderline.