Feats and Classes (Wyre)

[Cathix]

Tell me again why you won't write for us, Jim?

Folks, make Cheiro get paid for his work, would ya? He won't listen to me. :\

 

[ceratitis]

thanks chairo, will search and enjoy.
Z

 

[Knightfall]

Okay, this is an awesome thread! Way to go Cheiromancer! I'm going to have to steal some of these feats of World of Kulan.

 

[The Forsaken One]

As always Cheiro, great stuff. Yoinking .

Will keep my eye on this thread! Makes me make an effort again to translate my stuff from dutch to english so its postable. If I ever get it done (or at least something presentable from it) I'll make a thread too .

 

[Cheiromancer]

I'm gratified but a little bemused by the sudden attention. It's all over a year old; Frukathka bumped a year old thread.

But still, I appreciate the comments.

 

[Knightfall]

I'm gratified but a little bemused by the sudden attention. It's all over a year old; Frukathka bumped a year old thread.

But still, I appreciate the comments.

Well, look at that. Didn't even notice it was an old thread. That darn cat, known as Fru, is always bumping up old threads.

Seriously, good feats are good feats. Regardless of when they were created. My question becomes, how would you integrate these feats into what Sep is doing on his Epic rules thread?

Cheers!

KF72

 

[Knightfall]

Thanks for the comments!

I was really thinking of low level characters when I composed these feats. Looking at them from the other end of the power spectrum gives a fresh perspective on them. However, I need more convincing that things need to be changed.

What you have argued is that the feats are a viable choice for epic level characters. I agree with you. Now the question is whether the feats are overpowered for lower level characters. If the feats as written were too good for some characters, then suitably stiff pre-requisites would have to be added.

But if they are viable (but not overpowered) for low-level characters, then the feats wouldn't need to be fixed. And I think that is the case. If I'm mistaken, I hope someone will show me the error of my ways.

Well, I've looked through all the feats, and some do seem a little powerful. I've decided to use them anyway, but have included some more prerequisites. Here's my versions of the two feats CrusadeDave pointed out...

Reconciliation of Religion [General]
By Cheiromancer – modified for World of Kulan
You have settled the dogmatic differences of your faiths.
Prerequisites: Wis 15, Knowledge (religion) 4 ranks, turn/rebuke undead and animal companion as class abilities. (You do not need to be able to turn or rebuke undead or actually have an animal companion, just as long as these abilities are class features.)
Benefit: Your class levels stack (to a maximum of your character level) for the purposes of the turn/rebuke undead, animal companion and (if you possess it) wild shape class abilities. Only count class levels which improve the turn/rebuke undead and animal companion class features.

Sophist [General]
"Be wise, be clever!"
By Cheiromancer [EN World SN] – modified for World of Kulan
Your divine caster levels stack when determining level.
Prerequisites: Wis 17, Knowledge (religion) 6 ranks, ability to cast divine spells from two different spell lists, Reconciliation of Religion.
Benefit: Your divine class levels stack (to a maximum of your character level) for the purpose of determining your caster level. This does not affect your spells known or your spells per day.

I only added the requirement of a higher Wisdom score, for both, and the Knowledge (religion) ranks requirement for Sophist, but it makes it feel more balanced, IMO.

 

[Knightfall]

Okay, I really like the two "Theurgic" feats Cheiromancer came up with, and one is exactly the same concept as I was trying to achieve here. However, I think the "Theurgic" feats should be a little harder to qualify for, plus I want bards and sorcerers to be able to qualify for these feats.

Anyway, here are my World of Kulan versions, plus 3 new feats to chain in.

Theurgic Adept [General]
By Cheiromancer – modified for World of Kulan
Your arcane and divine caster levels stack when determining caster level.
Prerequisites: Int 15, Wis 15, Cha 15, Knowledge (arcana) 6 ranks, Knowledge (religion or nature) 6 ranks, ability to cast both arcane and divine spells, Mystic Insight or Insight into the Green.
Benefit: Your arcane and divine class levels stack (to a maximum of your character level) for the purpose of determining your caster level. This does not affect your spells known or your spells per day.

Theurgic Focus [General]
By Cheiromancer – modified for World of Kulan
You gain a divine/arcane gestalt level, in the future.
Prerequisites: Int 13, Wis 13, Cha 13, ability to cast both arcane and divine spells.
Benefit: At some future time when you advance a level, choose an arcane class and a divine class you have levels in. You may take a gestalt level in these classes.
Special: If you use a rule variant that allows a limited number of gestalt levels then the gestalt level gained by this feat counts as a level of a base class.

Theurgic Savant [General] (NEW)
You gain a bonus on your theurgic arcane and divine spells' save DCs.
Prerequisites: Int 17, Wis 17, Cha 17, Knowledge (arcana) 8 ranks, Knowledge (religion or nature) 8 ranks, ability to cast both arcane and divine spells, Mystic Insight or Insight into the Green, Theurgic Adept.
Benefit: You gain a +2 insight bonus on all save DCs for your chosen theurgic arcane and divine classes' spells.

True Theurgist [Epic] (NEW)
Your arcane and divine caster levels stack when determining number of spells.
Prerequisites: Int 19, Wis 19, Cha 19, Knowledge (arcana) 20 ranks, Knowledge (religion or nature) 20 ranks, ability to cast both arcane and divine spells, Mystic Insight or Insight into the Green, Theurgic Adept, Theurgic Savant.
Benefit: Your arcane and divine class levels stack (to a maximum of your character level) for the purpose of determining your normal spells known and your normal spells per day, but not for any epic spells.

Epic Theurgist [Epic] (NEW)
Your Knowledge skill ranks stack when determining number of epic spells.
Prerequisites: Int 21, Wis 21, Cha 21, Knowledge (arcana) 25 ranks, Knowledge (religion or nature) 25 ranks, ability to cast both arcane and divine epic spells, Mystic Insight or Insight into the Green, Theurgic Adept, Theurgic Savant, True Theurgist, Epic Spellcasting.
Benefit: Your Knowledge (arcana) and Knowledge (religion or nature) ranks stack (to a maximum of 100 ranks) for the purpose of determining your epic spells per day.
-------------------------------
I'm going to crosspost the New feats on my Theurgist Feats thread.

 

[Cheiromancer]

Well, I've looked through all the feats, and some do seem a little powerful.

At low levels or high levels? Are you thinking of a particular power level to the campaign? (25 point buy vs 40 point buy, say). Is there a problem if they are available before a particular level?

Some of your balancing requirements seem to be flavor requirements; skill ranks that characters would normally get anyway, at levels that don't hinder them. For instance, no one would take Theurgic adept before 3rd level anyway (you need to have a level in two different spellcasting classes and another feat), so the 6 ranks isn't much of a hardship.

The requirement of a high charisma in your suite of feats seems a trifle odd if someone is, say, a cleric/wizard multiclass. Not as odd as if you required a high Strength or something, but it is still extraneous to the main class ability.

I'll comment on your feats in their own thread.

 

[Knightfall]

At low-level. And I'm eyeballing them through how I will use them for my own campaign. The idea of having a high Charisma, is so it works as well for sorcerers as it does for wizards. I originally conceived them as needing a high Intelligence OR Charisma and a high Wisdom, but decided to go for the more restrictive approach, which is a World of Kulan thing. For Wyre, you would remove the Charisma requirement, I guess.