D&D 5E Feats that allow you to become a quarter caster?

TrueBagelMan · Jul 2, 2020

TL;DR
PC wants to create a system where you use feats to get access to more spells. Need to know if this is balanced.

Feat: Magic Adept
Prerequisite: Magic Initiate Feat, 8th level
You have trained to be better in magic then you already are. You gain access to a 1st and 2nd level from the same spell list of Magic Initiate. The 1st level spell from Magic Initiate feat can be cast a second time before taking a long rest.

Feat: Magic Practitioner
Prerequisite: Magic Adept feat, 12th level
You get a 3rd level spell and another 2nd level spell from the spell list. You get a second use of the 1st and 2nd level spell from Magic Adept.

DND_Reborn · Jul 2, 2020

I don't think they are horrible at all but a bit strong, after all with them you get a 3rd level spell before quarter-casters like Arcane Trickster (which gets level 3 spells at 13th level).

I wouldn't allow additional castings of the earlier spells, though. If you want another casting, take it again IMO.

If I follow it with all three as you have them it would be:

2 Cantrips
2 Firsts (two castings per long rest for each spell)
2 Seconds (two castings of one of these per long rest)
1 Third

A slightly weaker version would be:

Feat: Magic Adept
Prerequisite: Magic Initiate Feat
You have trained to be better in magic then you already are. You gain access to a 1st and 2nd level from the same spell list of Magic Initiate.

Feat: Magic Practitioner
Prerequisite: Magic Adept feat
Your dabbling in the arts nearly rivals studied casters. You gain access to a another cantrip and 2nd level from the same spell list of Magic Initiate.

You would get 3 cantrips, 2 first, and 2 second level spells. All four would be castable once per long rest.

Combing those with ritual caster would make for quite a spell caster IMO.

As a slight aside, wouldn't "Practitioner" come before "Adept" as I think someone who is adept is usually thought to be better?

jgsugden · Jul 2, 2020

I would advise against it. A feat should not grant more spellcasting abilitity than a level of a class - it should grant less. A 2nd feat in a feat chain like the one you describe should offer an additional cantrip and an additional 1st level spell (or an additional casting of the first spell chosen). A 3rd feat in the chain would offer another 1st level spell and a class related ability. A 4th spell in the chain might grant an enhancement to that class ability and a 2nd level spell.

Being able to gain these abilities, without slowing down advancement towards higher level abilities within your class, should require less benefit than multiclassing, not more.

DemoMonkey · Jul 2, 2020

This was actually in the Playtest rules, "D&D Next", right to the end. There were 3 more feats, 1 granting just a 2nd level spell once per day, 1 granting a 3rd, and the last one granting a 4th. There were no additional cantrips and the only prerequisite was the previous feat in the "chain".

I was sorry to see they didn't make the final cut before publication.

Pauln6 · Jul 2, 2020

I like the idea although the playtest ones need beefing up slightly but the intention might have been to give spell casting classes extra spells, so you can't just view them through a multi classing prism. Maybe the second feat should grant a 2nd level spell and +1 to your spell casting stat. The third feat could then be an extra 1st and 3rd level spell, and the final one an extra 2nd and 4th level spell.

Coroc · Jul 2, 2020

I can only always point out to the criminal background. Check this one out it is only a background. Still it basically gives you all the utility skills of a full fledged rogue. (Traps locks perception).

So while the feat chain might look pretty powerful, do not forget that character misses out other feats or ASIs.

Still, the better way to go is to play EK or AT from the start imho. The EK can be customized pretty neat. Or just take a few levels in a half caster class?

aco175 · Jul 2, 2020

I might lean more towards a feat that allows you to swap out a class power for a spell, maybe two. This way the player can decide if the character wants to be a better thief or fighter or caster. If a fighter needs to give up his indomitable power to get a 1st and 2nd level spell makes him want to decide what kind of fighter and caster he wants to be.

Ath-kethin · Jul 2, 2020

I made a whole chain of feats that provided increased access to spells, higher level spells, and spell slots for my Primeval Thule campaign. Each had the previous as a prerequisite and it topped off at 6th level spells.

Playtests went well enough, but I should stress that I didn't allow any full casters in that campaign aside from warlocks. My chain worked very well within that framework, especially since the casting ability came at the expense of ASIs.

Dausuul · Jul 2, 2020

jgsugden said:
Being able to gain these abilities, without slowing down advancement towards higher level abilities within your class, should require less benefit than multiclassing, not more.

There is one critical flaw in this argument: Martial/caster multiclassing sucks. Unless you rely on exploits like the sorcadin, or the wizard who dips two levels in fighter so they can nova harder with Action Surge, you will be significantly weaker than a single-classed character of the same level.

Feats should be judged in comparison to other feats or to ASIs. Which would you rather have at 4th level: +1 to your attack and damage rolls, or one 1st-level and one 2nd-level spell slot? It's not immediately obvious, which suggests that this is a reasonable option.

At 12th level, your primary stat is presumably maxed out, so now you're comparing one 1st-level, one 2nd-level, and one 3rd-level slot to, let's say, the Sentinel feat*. Which is better at 12th level? Sentinel is a darn good feat, but I lean toward the spell slots, which makes me think they're a bit too strong; the power gap between 2nd-level and 3rd-level spells is far bigger than the gap between 1st- and 2nd-level. If this were cut back to just granting one 3rd-level slot, I think it would line up better.

*I picked Sentinel as an example of a feat which is very strong, but not notoriously overpowered like GWM or Sharpshooter.