Feats vs. Features

[Gooba42]

What is the practical difference between a Feat and a Feature?

I'm introducing Elements of Magic into my game and the Traditions aspect of it has me intrigued. A similar mechanism would allow me to frame, say, the Rogue and the Scout in the same way with feats for Sneak Attack and Skirmish linked to the generic framework rather than the abstract and specific class name.

Classes like fighter would benefit relatively little from this, they already have feats as their primary class feature but all of the published and future Alternate Class features would just be inserted as feats with a level/tradition prerequisite.

You still wouldn't build a barbarian caster, but you might build a holy barbarian who turns undead instead of raging.

Aside from the inherently unpredictable emergent phenomena and odd synergies, is there anything inherently unbalancing about playing under such rules assuming the prerequisites are suitably constructed? I wouldn't, for instance, allow a barbarian to pick up sneak attack in order to run in and rage-gank my mobs in the surprise round.

It's sort of the difference between the EverQuest classes and EverQuest II classes rather than classed vs. classless.

 

[Herzog]

I have been thinking about that, and this was my conclusion so far:

1. Although it would allow for a far more flexible system, it would also mean some (class) features have to disappear, because they are far too powerfull to be included in this system.
2. Since it would no longer be necessary to release new classes and prestige classes, you could run the game more easily with core only. However, this would mean WotC can't make money, so it is probably not a system that's going to be released officially. Someone has to build this himself.

Herzog

 

[charlesatan]

I have been thinking about that, and this was my conclusion so far:

2. Since it would no longer be necessary to release new classes and prestige classes, you could run the game more easily with core only. However, this would mean WotC can't make money, so it is probably not a system that's going to be released officially. Someone has to build this himself.

Herzog

Not necessarily. They can just publish splatbooks with feats instead of classes/prestige classes.

The biggest hurdle is complexity. Making everyone "generic" and throwing all the "features" into feats makes going through all the feats and its combinations a big chore. The existing features/feat system gives players some flexibility (feats) but still following the class based system that is D&D.

Also check out the True20 system.

 

[Tequila Sunrise]

I did exactly this with the game revamp in my sig; I assigned certain feats as 'class feats' and the rest as general feats. A character gets a class feat at every odd level and a general feat at every even level, so that things can't happen like a character taking all the Rage feats plus all of the Sneak Attack feats.

 

[trav_laney]

I haven't done this with all of the class features in the game, but I have done it with the flurry of blows ability. It's only *slightly* broken, making barbarians and rogues a little more deadly than they already are...but my players (and certain NPC villains) are having a lot of fun with it .

Flurry of Blows [General]
You can make melee attacks with stunning speed
Prerequisite: Base attack bonus +1, Dex 13+
Benefit: When using the full attack option, you may make one extra melee attack per round at your highest bonus, but this extra attack and all other attacks for that round are made at a -2 penalty. This penalty lasts for one round, so it also applies to any attacks of opportunity that you may make before your next round.
Special: Fighters may select this feat as a bonus feat. Monks receive this feat for free as a bonus feat at 1st level, regardless of whether or not they meet the prerequisites for this feat.

Improved Flurry of Blows [General]
Your accuracy improves when using your Flurry of Blows
Prerequisite: Base attack bonus +5, Flurry of Blows, Dex 15+
Benefit: When making a Flurry of Blows attack, the penalty to your attacks is reduced to -1.
Special: Fighters may select this feat as a bonus feat. Monks receive this feat for free as a bonus feat at 5th level, regardless of whether or not they meet the prerequisites for this feat.

Greater Flurry of Blows [General]
You may make Flurry of Blows attacks with perfect accuracy
Prerequisite: Base attack bonus +9, Improved Flurry of Blows, Flurry of Blows, Dex 17+
Benefit: You no longer suffer a penalty to your attack rolls when making a Flurry of Blows attack.
Special: Fighters may select this feat as a bonus feat. Monks receive this feat for free as a bonus feat at 9th level, regardless of whether or not they meet the prerequisites for this feat.

Superior Flurry of Blows [General]
Your Flurry of Blows attacks are made with blinding speed and accuracy.
Prerequisite: Base attack +11, Flurry of Blows, Improved Flurry of Blows, Greater Flurry of Blows, Dex 19+
Benefit: When making a Flurry of Blows attack, you gain two extra attacks per round at your highest base attack bonus (instead of just one).
Special: Fighters may select this feat as a bonus feat. Monks receive this feat for free at 11th level as a bonus feat, regardless of whether or not they meet the prerequisites for this feat.

 

[Darklone]

Don't you guys have GrimTales?

 

[sirwmholder]

I really like the idea of Class Feats and General Feats I might put that idea to use. It elegantly sidesteps the only concern I would have about a system like this.

One problem you would need to look out for is anytime something would not be allowed by the RAW. For instance, let's say you make a Rage Feat progression with BAB requirements. Now let's say you make a Frenzy Feat Progression that requires basic Rage and a relatively high BAB. Your generic class has enough Feats to take both Feat Trees by level 20. By the RAW that character would have the abilities of a level 30 at level 20. Since there was no previous way of gaining the later Rage abilities without sticking with Barbarian and there was no way to gain all the Frenzy abilities without taking the Frenzied Berserker PrC.

Hope this helps,
William Holder

 

[Aust Diamondew]

Might as well go with a classless system. My group has done so a couple times and its pretty fun.

 

[GreatLemur]

I wouldn't say classless, exactly, since this change wouldn't make things like BAB and Hit Dice interchangeable with feats, but I do think that a "generic class" system would be the full realization of this idea. Check out Unearthed Arcana and True20 for examples: In each case, you've got just three extremely flexible classes--one for combat, one for skill use, and one for spellcasting--which all have appropriate HP/BAB/save/skill progressions, and they all get loads of feats which can be used to gain "class feature"-type abilities.

I think it's a great direction, but hasn't been perfectly realized quite yet. I'd say that True20's version is closer than Unearthed Arcana's, though.

Nowadays, I like nothing more in a new WotC book than new base classes and alternate class features. Hopefully, in D&D 4E, I'll be able to look forward to just getting multiple sections of themed feats which do all the work of new classes, but with greater modularity.