Feats

[Sepulchrave II]

The Other Two:

Death Attack
Given the fact that the Death Attack is the signature ability of Assassins, I'd prefer not to nerf it in any way. Only half of the Assassin's levels above 10 count towards the DC (bringing it in line with 10 + level/2 + ability modifier). Fiendish pixies notwithstanding, I can live with this - the split Int/Dex requirement is demanding on the character, 3 rounds of study are required (I propose we contrive no feats to modify this), it's a PrC and, most importantly, the character must be evil - this brings a whole slew of other issues (mainly unweighable RP issues) to the fore.


Death of Enemies
I suggest we change this feat to this:

Racial Nemesis [Epic]
Your favoured enemies tremble at the mention of your name.
Prerequisites: Bane of Enemies, Survival 30 ranks, five or more favoured enemies
Benefit: Choose one of your favoured enemies. Any weapon which you wield is treated as a dread weapon for that creature type (thus, its enhancement bonus is increased by +6 and it deals an extra 6d6 points of damage). This benefit stacks with that offered by the Bane of Enemies feat.
Special: You can choose this feat multiple times. Each time you take it, it applies to a different favoured enemy.


The dread enchantment is problematic in and of itself, as it forces a Fort Save (DC 27) on a crit. I would suggest we modify this ability, and replace it with this:

Dread
A dread weapon excels at attacking one type or subtype of creature. Against its designated foe, its effective enhancement bonus is +6 better than its normal enhancement bonus. It deals an extra 6d6 points of damage against the foe. Bows, crossbows, and slings so crafted bestow the dread quality upon their ammunition. Market Price: +7 bonus.

Whaddya think?

 

[Sepulchrave II]

Consider this feat:

Chaotic Fury [Epic]
Prerequisites: BAB +40, Chaotic Rage, Rage 5/day, chaotic alignment.
Benefit: Any weapon you wield while in a rage is treated as an anarchic power weapon: it is chaos-aligned, deals an extra 3d6 points of damage against creatures of lawful alignment, and the target gains one negative level (Fortitude DC 23 to remove 24 hours later). On a successful critical hit it instead deals +6d6 points of of chaotic damage and bestows two negative levels (or +9d6 and 3 negative levels if the critical multiplier is x3, or +12d6 and four negative levels if the critical multiplier is x4). This ability does not stack with similar abilities such as Chaotic Rage or the anarchic or anarchic power weapon enchantments.


1) Is it too boring and unimaginative?
2) Is the prereq too low? Is it too powerful?
3) Should the DC be a function of wielder's BAB or Str or Cha instead of fixed?

 

[Cheiromancer]

Minor nitpick: Is it anarchic power or chaotic power?

Spoiler

It's anarchic power- I shoulda checked the online SRD instead of my book!

Wealth wise- well, this is a +8 bonus. A half-level of wealth (which is one feat) is never going to be equal to a +8 jump in the enhancement of one's best weapon. A 40th level barbarian is going to go from the equivalent of a +13 weapon (+12 regular, +1 from chaotic rage) to a +20 weapon. Only usable during rage, but that hardly seems a significant combat limitation.

I want to say that this would be a rather powerful divine ability (6 feats in UK's system). 6 feats is 3 full levels of wealth, concentrated into one weapon... well, even that wouldn't quite be enough. 8 wouldn't be enough (4 levels of wealth). And I be afraid that it would be unbalancing to discard the 25% rule so vehemently, with only a single feat.

Maybe if you made it some kind of anarchic power attack; subtract 6 from the attack roll in order to gain the anarchic power ability? Then it is really only a +2 enhancement (+1 over the chaotic rage ability, which it subsumes) and that is a lot more reasonable.

Dunno about the save. I wonder where they got the DC 23 from? Maybe give it a Str 27 prerequisite, and make the save DC equal to 10 + Str bonus? It won't scale very quickly, but it would be a bit of an acknowledgment that a flat DC is stagnant and kinda boring. It won't make much of a difference in game play, I don't think.

 

[Cheiromancer]

I still don't know about 'no absolutes' - I'm less wary than Cheiro of them. Rather than escalating numbers, I kind of prefer the idea of shifting paradigms which trump successively weaker paradigms, e.g., with epic spells and nonepic spells:

[ward] > [slay] > death ward > finger of death etc.

It's tricky to gauge when one should simply override another, or force a OCLC, or whatever - that's part of the weighting of an 'epic benefit' of a seed.

It's also much harder with feats, of course. If a DM says that nondetection or mind blank + invisibility is effective against true seeing, there is always that defense as well (i.e. Occluded Soul + Unseen > true seeing).

[Ducks for cover].

I like the trumping hierarchy too. I'm just concerned about them all getting too blurred together. It should be clear from context (i.e. something's being a divine ability rather than a feat, or whatever) whether one thing trumps another.

We might need a mechanism to define a CL or SP for feats. If a feat has a skill prerequisite, that could serve as its SP; and that number (-3) could serve as its CL. Or maybe the minimum level (defined by BAB or whatever) could be the CL. Min ability score= level would be a decent rule of thumb too. Epic feats would be on the same general level as epic spells.

There are things higher than feats, of course; divine abilities are the most plausible candidates, although I think most if not all of them are merely high level feats. But I suppose we could define aggregate spells as commensurate with divine abilities, if the need arose. I don't know; we haven't sketched what, if anything, lies beyond our system.

 

[Cheiromancer]

The Other Two:

Death Attack
Given the fact that the Death Attack is the signature ability of Assassins, I'd prefer not to nerf it in any way. Only half of the Assassin's levels above 10 count towards the DC (bringing it in line with 10 + level/2 + ability modifier). Fiendish pixies notwithstanding, I can live with this - the split Int/Dex requirement is demanding on the character, 3 rounds of study are required (I propose we contrive no feats to modify this), it's a PrC and, most importantly, the character must be evil - this brings a whole slew of other issues (mainly unweighable RP issues) to the fore.

In addition to the reasons you state, it follows a standard formula. Not some weird mechanic like Terrifying Rage uses. We can make these kinds of abilities rather less common, but I don't think we can eliminate them entirely. Besides... Assassins should be feared, shouldn't they?

Re: I propose we contrive no feats...
I imagine you must be tired of me quoting UK, but I can't help but think his work will be well known and well-regarded by folks interested in epic gaming. At the very least, his thought processes are different from ours, and serve as a useful foil. That being said,

KILLER INSTINCT [EPIC] (EX)
In combat you achieve a zen-like focus, allowing you to strike killing
blows without preparation.
Prerequisites: Death attack class ability, sneak attack +5d6.
Benefit: You need not spend 3 rounds preparing for a death attack,
instead you only need take a standard action to prepare for the death attack.

I notice that the flavor text does not quite agree with the mechanical benefit, but I suspect that, whether we contrive them or not, people are going to find ways to shorten the 3 round waiting period. If it is a real problem we may have to specifically say we think it is a problem, and suggest an alternative (a bonus to the save DC, or something). I think this problem is less obvious than disjunction, which we could get away with not mentioning; the non-shortenability might need to be called out.

Death of Enemies
I suggest we change this feat to this:

Racial Nemesis [Epic]
Your favoured enemies tremble at the mention of your name.
Prerequisites: Bane of Enemies, Survival 30 ranks, five or more favoured enemies
Benefit: Choose one of your favoured enemies. Any weapon which you wield is treated as a dread weapon for that creature type (thus, its enhancement bonus is increased by +6 and it deals an extra 6d6 points of damage). This benefit stacks with that offered by the Bane of Enemies feat.
Special: You can choose this feat multiple times. Each time you take it, it applies to a different favoured enemy.


The dread enchantment is problematic in and of itself, as it forces a Fort Save (DC 27) on a crit. I would suggest we modify this ability, and replace it with this:

Dread
A dread weapon excels at attacking one type or subtype of creature. Against its designated foe, its effective enhancement bonus is +6 better than its normal enhancement bonus. It deals an extra 6d6 points of damage against the foe. Bows, crossbows, and slings so crafted bestow the dread quality upon their ammunition. Market Price: +7 bonus.

Whaddya think?

It seems quite balanced, but I don't know if the change is necessary. The fact that the Fort Save is a flat DC 27 might be enough to make it moot. Creatures who fail their save on a 1 would fail their massive damage save on a 1 as well, wouldn't they? (Which reminds me- were you saying something about the save DC for massive damage increasing with the damage done?)

 

[Sepulchrave II]

Minor nitpick: Is it anarchic power or chaotic power?

I'd assumed they'd changed the name to correspond with the nonepic change of chaotic to anarchic in 3.5; I might be wrong.

I want to say that this would be a rather powerful divine ability (6 feats in UK's system). 6 feats is 3 full levels of wealth, concentrated into one weapon... well, even that wouldn't quite be enough. 8 wouldn't be enough (4 levels of wealth). And I be afraid that it would be unbalancing to discard the 25% rule so vehemently, with only a single feat.

I figured it was powerful, but these are good points. It wouldn't feel out of line as an SDA.

Maybe if you made it some kind of chaotic power attack; subtract 6 from the attack roll in order to gain the chaotic power ability? Then it is really only a +2 enhancement (+1 over the chaotic rage ability, which it subsumes) and that is a lot more reasonable.

It might work as a 3/day 1-round burst ability, with lower prereq BAB. I'd drop the weapon analogy as well. It's useful to use it as a guideline, but I don't know that it needs to be called out explicitly. I'd pump the DC - it's kind of irrelevant to the combat anyway: creatures can get restoration 24 hours later, whatever.

Even better, I wonder if it would work as a rage-based feat, on the model of [divine] feats. A variety of [Rage] feats would be possible. If fits the long moderate buff/intense burst model:

Chaotic Fury [Epic][Rage](Su)
Your chaotic rage becomes a fury.
Prerequisites: BAB +30, Chaotic Rage, Rage 5/day, chaotic alignment.
Benefit: As a free action, you may invoke a Chaotic Fury. You must already be raging in order to use this power.
For each round you remain in the Chaotic Fury (minimum 1 round), you spend one further use of your Rage ability, to your daily maximum. Any weapon you wield while in a Chaotic Fury deals an extra 3d6 points of damage against creatures of lawful alignment, and the target gains one negative level if struck (Fortitude DC 10 + your HD/2 + your Strength modifier to remove 24 hours later). On a successful critical hit it instead deals +6d6 points of of chaotic damage and bestows two negative levels (or +9d6 and 3 negative levels if the critical multiplier is x3, or +12d6 and four negative levels if the critical multiplier is x4). When the fury passes, your rage also ends.
This ability does not stack with the benefits of Chaotic Rage, or the anarchic or anarchic power weapon enchantments.


It's the kind of thing which could really turn a fight against the right enemy - devils, or whatever. It would be available at 30th level - with 8 rages per day, it would be good for 2 x 3-round combats, which seems reasonable.

I think [Rage] feats are a good idea - it forces a Barbarian to make choices. Otherwise, with 8 x 20+ round rages in a day, every combat will see him in a constant rage: if rage (as an idea) ceases to be meaningful, it needs something else to replace it.

 

[Cheiromancer]

I like it. Excellent work!

 

[Sepulchrave II]

Re: Killer Instinct

Dunno. 1 standard action seems short. An undetected assassin can move + study then move + strike; this is pretty dangerous.

There is no Divine Assassin SDA - I would expect it to be a swift action or a move action to study a victim if there were (depending on the prereqs); maybe a standard action is OK as an epic feat. A full round with higher prereqs would make me feel more comfortable, though. Or less uncomfortable.

On the basis that an SDA is simply a high-level epic feat, a Killer Instinct ability which followed the Sneak Attack of Opportunity model would also seem obvious.

 

[Cheiromancer]

I think you are right about 1 standard action being too short. UK thinks that a divine ability would be to make it a free action. Dunno - he's seems a little distracted right now. But I am hardly exhibiting laser-like focus and intensity on this project at the moment, either.

I was thinking about a [type] Power Attack family of feats. Fiery Power Attack would sacrifice 1 point of attack bonus for +1d6 fire damage, Holy Power Attack would give holy damage, and so on. The damage would stack, but you couldn't subtract more than your BAB.

I was thinking you'd have to be using a weapon of the appropriate type to use the feat (a flaming weapon to use Fiery Power Attack, a holy weapon for Holy Power Attack, and so on). Although an epic feat should confer a particular +1 bonus to a weapon. The prerequisite for a +1 bonus feat should include being of the appropriate sub-type, or being able to cast a spell or use a spell-like ability of that sub-type. It *is* magic, after all.

Does this sound reasonable? An epic Fighter (with a few sorcerer levels) adding +10d6 fire damage to his melee attacks by taking a -10 attack penalty?

 

[Sepulchrave II]

Does this sound reasonable? An epic Fighter (with a few sorcerer levels) adding +10d6 fire damage to his melee attacks by taking a -10 attack penalty?

I think a few cherries for the eldritch knight would be a good thing, but this seems kind of powerful - it's 3.5 x as much damage as the extra damage from a regular Power Attack to opponents without resistance. Especially problematic if we continue nonepic BAB.

My feeling is that something like this should have a prerequisite [epic] feat. I'm also concerned with creating too much duplication with specific weapon abilities. That said, if Holy Strike grants a +2 weapon ability, so should this:


Fire Brand [Epic](Su)
Prerequisites: Weapon Focus (selected weapon), ability to cast any arcane spell of at least 3rd level with the [fire] descriptor.
Benefit: Any weapon with regard to which you possess the Weapon Focus feat is treated as a flaming burst weapon for you, in addition to any other abilities that it possesses. The extra fire damage does not stack with that granted by a weapon which already possesses the flaming or flaming burst special ability.


Given that certain schticks are already taken (Barbarian = Thundering Rage & Chaotic Rage; Blackguard = Unholy Strike; Paladin = Holy Strike; Ranger = Bane of Enemies; Cleric/Paladin = Spectral Strike; ), it might be nice to provide hooks for other classes based on certain weapon enhancements - e.g. Rogue/Assassin = wounding etc; Bard = ? Dancing ? Not until 40th-level, maybe.

Dwarven Defender = defending. Would anybody ever take this?

All of the existing feats grant the equivalent of +1 or +2 weapon enhancements, but all are situational as well: must be raging, must be evil enemy, must be favoured enemy etc.

Improved Critical also grants the equivalent of a special ability - keen - and the equivalence is even more apparent now that they don't stack.