Female Dragonborn - No longer have breasts?

[Andor]

Well, if we are going to decide that the dragonborn are reptilian, then my worries aren't about the problems with boobs. What about artic campaigns? How does the cold blooded dragonborn handle that. Do they have to spend 14 hours sunbaking just to be able to function? What about usage of poisons. Does cold based damage cause stunning or loss of dexterity since it affects their blood temperature more so? How do dragonborn develop a self-identity, social skills, or even the most base aspects of interpersonal definition and relations if they are never actually taught by a parental figure? Can there be such thing a dragonborn town if there is no such thing as a dragonborn family?

To sum it up. In my campaigns, dragonborn will have boobs. Not because I am a perv but instead, simply because if I assume they are reptilian and thus unable to have boobs, I also have to make my dragonborn players socially inept characters with no effective understanding of interpersonal communications and a vital need to sit in the sun for a time period or potentially die because their blood is too cold while also blocking them off from various temperature ranges, not even taking into account inner-mountain dungeons, anything underground for long periods of time much less anything to do with the underdark.

Yes, there are many ways to say something is female. But the most obvious IS indeed boobs. So that'll work for my fantasy. Game. I'm playing a game in which people create something out of nothing, defy gravity, fight creatures that fly, breath pure elements and where cold is a sentient lifeform. Boobs on a creature that looks to be a human with some scales and a bit of plastic surgery isn't my chief concern if I'm bringing in evolutionary patterns and physics.

Also, if there is no family for a dragonborn, there is no real learning for a dragonborn. Not in the way we think of it. So, this means we have a creature that lived at least a portion of its life fully on instincts. No language, no writing, no abstract concepts, pure instinct. This means that, even after mutliple years in civilization we have an entire race created towards "Thurg no like elf, thurg smash" because of a lack of even the most base concept of social interaction. Which would you prefer people? Clearly sexually defined dragonborn, or a race with more problems than they are worth?

*shrug* I think you overstate the problems. Heck both the Skarn and Rilkans are reptilian +0 LA PC races. And the MM or DMG make no mention of how cold affects creatures with the reptillian sub-type. (Which I find annoying but hey.)


In any event a reptillian adventurer will to well to secure an endure elements spell or ring or warmth before going into the arctic, but there are plenty of cold blooded creatures that operate just fine at the 50-60 degree tempurature range common to most dungeon settings. Heck giant squid are cold-blooded and they seem to die if they get much above 50 deg.

As for socialization I'm not sure why you think that's impossible. Crocodilians care for there young to an extent. Heck even King Cobras guard their nests. I would be inclined to imagine a clutch laying reptilian species having a communal clutching area and a creche style method for raising their young, very egalitarian. Reminds me of a quote I once heard attributed to a native american. "You white people are strange. You only love your own children. We love all children."

 

[pawsplay]

Why do we need clothes, weapons and kung fu, but not the ability to distinguish between male and female? I think all these aspects are important for people to be able to identify with a race.

I did not say we did not need the ability to identify a race. But their humanoid features follow from humanoid characteristics. Human breasts on a dragon follow from... an inordinate belief in the importance of breasts in the grand scheme of the universe. Shoot, many humans are not busty at all. Does anyone really have trouble identifying the gender of Mary Lou Retton? So the dragonborn is busty, and doesn't even have mammaries? Please. Why not stick an udder on it? Why not give her long, blond hair? Corset, high heels, chainmail bikini with plunging neckline. Make sure to give her a staff. Chicks dig staves.

I just think it's ridiculous to think we can't identify with a race if their females don't look like Warrior Reptile Barbie. There should be more to a fantasy race than cosplay.

 

[0bsolete]

I did not say we did not need the ability to identify a race. But their humanoid features follow from humanoid characteristics. Human breasts on a dragon follow from... an inordinate belief in the importance of breasts in the grand scheme of the universe. Shoot, many humans are not busty at all. Does anyone really have trouble identifying the gender of Mary Lou Retton? So the dragonborn is busty, and doesn't even have mammaries? Please. Why not stick an udder on it? Why not give her long, blond hair? Corset, high heels, chainmail bikini with plunging neckline. Make sure to give her a staff. Chicks dig staves.

I just think it's ridiculous to think we can't identify with a race if their females don't look like Warrior Reptile Barbie. There should be more to a fantasy race than cosplay.

Your forgetting, this isn't a dragon. Its a humanoid. Look at the picture. Human form with some dragonesque details. Breasts ARE an udder, just one for a bipedal craeture. Long hair? Males in fantasy games have hair as well so thats not a defining feature. And the only way to differentiate between genders shouldn't be clothing choices. A plunging neckline only exists to highlight the breasts. A staff? Guys use staves as well. You can do curves, but even that is a limited method because that could simply be a femenin or underfed male. its easier to simply give them a bit extra chest and boom, you have an easily identifiable female. You see, logically, they shouldn't have many features. Not just breasts. The reason why everybody is making such a big deal about it is because they can't get their mind out of the gutter. What damage does it do? Really? I mean, if people run erotic campaigns, it works for them and makes their game better even if you or I don't agree with the decision. For you? It does no harm. If you don't want boobs, take them out of your game. No harm, no foul.

 

[pawsplay]

Aside from the fact that you missed a lot of sarcasm, in response to your post: I can still exclude them from my game because they are offensive to logic and good taste. Other people can like them, but despite my best efforts, I will probably think less of them for doing so. Sorry, that's just how it is. They have no rationale, they serve no purpose, they only distract from the setting.

If Cotton Candy Gnomes and Undead Acne Cysts appear in the MM, I can exclude those, too, that does not mean I approve of the design, or that I am happy having to do so.

 

[Brown Jenkin]

The problem here is that they removed the boobs instead of adding them to full dragons.

 

[Quenditar]

Well, if we are going to decide that the dragonborn are reptilian, then my worries aren't about the problems with boobs. What about artic campaigns? How does the cold blooded dragonborn handle that. Do they have to spend 14 hours sunbaking just to be able to function? What about usage of poisons. Does cold based damage cause stunning or loss of dexterity since it affects their blood temperature more so? How do dragonborn develop a self-identity, social skills, or even the most base aspects of interpersonal definition and relations if they are never actually taught by a parental figure? Can there be such thing a dragonborn town if there is no such thing as a dragonborn family?

To sum it up. In my campaigns, dragonborn will have boobs. Not because I am a perv but instead, simply because if I assume they are reptilian and thus unable to have boobs, I also have to make my dragonborn players socially inept characters with no effective understanding of interpersonal communications and a vital need to sit in the sun for a time period or potentially die because their blood is too cold while also blocking them off from various temperature ranges, not even taking into account inner-mountain dungeons, anything underground for long periods of time much less anything to do with the underdark.

Yes, there are many ways to say something is female. But the most obvious IS indeed boobs. So that'll work for my fantasy. Game. I'm playing a game in which people create something out of nothing, defy gravity, fight creatures that fly, breath pure elements and where cold is a sentient lifeform. Boobs on a creature that looks to be a human with some scales and a bit of plastic surgery isn't my chief concern if I'm bringing in evolutionary patterns and physics.

Also, if there is no family for a dragonborn, there is no real learning for a dragonborn. Not in the way we think of it. So, this means we have a creature that lived at least a portion of its life fully on instincts. No language, no writing, no abstract concepts, pure instinct. This means that, even after mutliple years in civilization we have an entire race created towards "Thurg no like elf, thurg smash" because of a lack of even the most base concept of social interaction. Which would you prefer people? Clearly sexually defined dragonborn, or a race with more problems than they are worth?

Archosaurs. Not lizards. Archosaurs - crocodiles, dinosaurs, and birds. Archosaurs are mostly warm-blooded in every sense of the word (and run hotter than mammals), have families with both parents involved in care for the babies (unlike mammals), and some are as intelligent as apes. A creature doesn't need to be a mammal to be warmblooded, intelligent, and social. Parrots do it. And they do all that without any hint of a boob. Some have no visible (to humans) differences between males and females at all!

And no, I'm not advocating that dragonborn go that far. I'm okay with dragonborn males being larger and stronger than females, although it is disappointingly uncreative. I can even live with them walking on their feet instead of their toes. Just...get rid of the human (not mammal, human) genitals, please.

 

[ProfessorCirno]

Not to intrude on the precise science of dragon breasts (much less with my first post of all things), but why should anyone but dragonborn CARE who the males and females are? Dungeons and Dragons isn't Star Trek, where all the female aliens are just waiting to be sexed up by the Kirk machine. Maybe it's just me, but I don't want all the races to be "Humans...WITH SCALES!" or "Humans...WITH A TAIL!" Let's make the non-human races actually non-human, and dragonborn is perfect to do that with.

Quite frankly, I think if you really want to differentiate between the two, let's make it a legit difference that harkens back to the whole scale bit. Females are dull and brown looking, while male dragonborn have a large array of colors across their scales to impress the females. God knows that'll bring in some interesting character concepts. And a few blinding ones, but hey, nothing worse then the inevitable dragonborn harem girls we'd have otherwise.

As a side note - dragonborn with breasts are anthro. Like, that's the very definition of the word. If you're into that, then by all means, don't let me stop you; but don't say it's not.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Not to intrude on the precise science of dragon breasts (much less with my first post of all things), but why should anyone but dragonborn CARE who the males and females are? Dungeons and Dragons isn't Star Trek, where all the female aliens are just waiting to be sexed up by the Kirk machine. Maybe it's just me, but I don't want all the races to be "Humans...WITH SCALES!" or "Humans...WITH A TAIL!" Let's make the non-human races actually non-human, and dragonborn is perfect to do that with.

Making races decidedly non-human and allow people to roleplay them is generally at odds. Yes, boobs might not be required, but all races that are playable need strong ties to human psychology and physiology. You can have dog-warrior races, you can have cat-rogue races, you can even have dragon-mage races, but in the end, they all need to be human enough for us to relate to.

Really, consider D&D trying to resolve around playing humans alongside with Oozes, Blink Dogs and (real) Dragons. Aside from the balancing nightmare, you will have trouble creating meaningful social interaction and player identification.
(I mean, I loved the idea of playing an Oozemaster, but even he is still somewhat human... )

Quite frankly, I think if you really want to differentiate between the two, let's make it a legit difference that harkens back to the whole scale bit. Females are dull and brown looking, while male dragonborn have a large array of colors across their scales to impress the females. God knows that'll bring in some interesting character concepts. And a few blinding ones, but hey, nothing worse then the inevitable dragonborn harem girls we'd have otherwise.

I like that idea a lot. I guess they didn't go for that, since the D&D Dragons are traditionally monochromatic. That might be a sacred cow that needs slaying (Dragons - color coded for your convenience!), but I suppose we might have to wait for another edition before this happens. (Or an awesome 3rd-party supplement.)

As a side note - dragonborn with breasts are anthro. Like, that's the very definition of the word. If you're into that, then by all means, don't let me stop you; but don't say it's not.

Anthro meaning anthropomorphed? Absolutely.

 

[pawsplay]

Making races decidedly non-human and allow people to roleplay them is generally at odds.

But making a non-human race human is fundamentally at odds. If they aren't human, you want to maximize their interest value by combining ways in which they relate to humans with ways in which they are quite different.

 

[Zeborah]

No one should think of the scalies, as they can yiff in hell.

Better to yiff in hell than perv in heaven.