[FF/3.5e] Shapechangers and Symbionts and Swarms, oh my! (and more teasers)

The Sigil

Mr. 3000 (Words per post)
Glanced very briefly through a copy of the Fiend Folio at the GAMA Show yesterday, and found the following tidbits I thought I'd pass along, since they appear to be 3.5e updates:

Shapechanger - This is changed in the FF from a creature type to a subtype - in other words, there are now 11 creature types instead of 13 (Beast is also gone). Hence, my guess is a 3.5e doppelganger will be a Medium-Sized Humanoid (Shapechanger) or some similar designation.

Swarm - This is an amalgam of Tiny, Fine, or Diminutive creatures that effectively act as one creature; the swarm "shares" hit points among its members, for instance (so catching the swarm of infernal bees in an area-effect spell does not necessarily mean the end of the swarm since each individual creature has 1 hp; if the swarm has 100 hp, it could "shrug off" a 50 hp lightning bolt and keep fighting - presumably, some of the individual critters in the swarm die, but not enough to negate its efficacy). This is another creature subtype.

Symbiont - Didn't get a chance to check this closely, but I believe it is a creature that "lives" with another creature, perhaps adding a template to it. Again, a subtype.

Extraplanar - Not a "true" subtype in the full sense of the word, this refers to any creature that is not currently on its native plane (e.g., PCs who travel to the elemental plane of fire would be considered "extraplanar") - creatures like giants that are otherwise identical to "prime material plane" giants but that are native to, say, Asgard, would be considered "extraplanar" on the prime. Presumably, this governs creatures that can/cannot be banished, et al with spells like Holy Word.

Just a few random tidbits if anyone cares. Also, I saw a mockup of the new 3.5e PH Cover. It looks similar to the current cover, but with 6 "spheres" of gold surrounding the sword on the front, and some more goldwork and "faux gems" as well (IIRC, the spheres were arranged at 30, 90, 150, 210, 270, and 330 degrees around the sword, and the additional "goldwork with gems" stretched thenceforth with "channels" running at 90 and 270 degrees, splitting off from one red gem into three other channels, each containing red gems (the angle of split was that one line continued in the original direction and the others looked to be 30-degree angles or so).

It looks more garish than the 3e PHB, but also a bit uglier IMO.

Then again, it could be just a "test piece" - the cover was "contact-papered" onto a 3e PHB and in a glass case with a bunch of other stuff in there as well, so there was no opportunity for close inspection.

--The Sigil
 

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The Sigil said:


Extraplanar - Not a "true" subtype in the full sense of the word, this refers to any creature that is not currently on its native plane (e.g., PCs who travel to the elemental plane of fire would be considered "extraplanar") - creatures like giants that are otherwise identical to "prime material plane" giants but that are native to, say, Asgard, would be considered "extraplanar" on the prime. Presumably, this governs creatures that can/cannot be banished, et al with spells like Holy Word.

I like the sound of this, but I think I'd prefer it if they just did away with Outsider full stop and instead changed all the Outsiders to more appropriate types. So planetouched would become humanoid, while thigns like celestials and demons could be given a enw creature type, Exemplar (like Outsider except without the huge generalisation of all outer planar things being Exemplars - you peeps from the ps3e lists will recognise what I'm talking about ;) ).

Then these things just gain the Extraplanar descriptor when they're off their home planes...
 
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Re: Re: [FF/3.5e] Shapechangers and Symbionts and Swarms, oh my! (and more teasers)

Carnifex said:


I like the sound of this, but I think I'd prefer it if they just did away with Outsider full stop and instead changed all the Outsiders to more appropriate types. So planetouched would become humanoid, while thigns like celestials and demons could be given a enw creature type, Exemplar (like Outsider except without the huge generalisation of all outer planar things being Exemplars - you peeps from the ps3e lists will recognise what I'm talking about ;) ).

Then these things just gain the Extraplanar descriptor when they're off their home planes...
That sparked a seed in my memory...

It looks as though "outsider" is staying, but in a more narrow way (I think). An "outsider" is not just a creature "native to" the outer planes, but a creature that "is made of/embodies" the outer plane it comes from. E.g., a celestial is an outsider because it is the personification of good, a demon/devil is an outsider because it is the personification of evil. The cloud giant family that has been living in Elysium for 180 generations are "giants," not "outsiders." Several of the creatures I looked at were of types other than outsider but carried the extraplanar descriptor - I know for sure I saw both extraplanar constructs and extraplanar giants with the "Construct" and "Giant" type rather than the "Outsider" type. And I know there were a LOT more creatures with the "Extraplanar" descriptor (because in the index of creatures by type and subtype, that was the biggest paragraph)

So, my guess: The Bebilith will be reclassed as a Construct (Extraplanar) in the new MM.

That still may not be exactly what you wanted, but I think it's still all right, assuming that my conclusion on their narrowing of the definition is correct (not something I explicitly read, but based on what I saw, seems a reasonable inference).

--The Sigil
 
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Re: Re: Re: [FF/3.5e] Shapechangers and Symbionts and Swarms, oh my! (and more teasers)

The Sigil said:
So, my guess: The Bebilith will be reclassed as a Construct (Extraplanar) in the new MM.

--The Sigil
I think you mean the Retriever, not the Bebilith, but I agree with the rest of your assessment.

Any ideas as to what kinds of art we can expect to see in the FF?

Thanks for dropping off this information!
 

It was just a very cursory glance-through - I was looking for rules alterations more than anything - but the art seems to be in line with the original MM - lots of different styles, from "hyper-realistic" to "watercolor." That probably helps not at all, but I can't give you more specific information. I was only in Vegas for the day (Tuesday) so unfortunately I can't go back and take another look to answer specific questions (I'm home in California now). :(

--The Sigil
 

Hi Sigil! :)

Did you happen to get a glance at any of the monsters, specifically were there any more Demon Lords; Dukes of Hell or similar high-powered nasties in the book?
 

Didn't see any dukes of hell/demon lords in flipping through the book.

DID see demodands. Also a brain golem (Extraplanar, I think) and a blood golem (not extraplanar). I think "half-troll" was a template, too.

Also, at the Green Ronin booth, I got a chance to look at their Avatars book ("Book of Avatars," I think - like Legions of Hell only for angels/celestials). Michael and Gabriel the archangels are statted (Michael is spelled Mi'Kail or somesuch) and the art is gorgeous and their stats kick butt - Gabriel has, IIRC, 48 HD and I think Michael has 50 or more (possibly 60). Now I know why traditional Christian Mythology has them winning the war against devils! ;)

Also, Bastion's Faeries book looks nice.

I'm avoiding gratuitous pimping of Mystic Eye Games since MEG Hal showed me around and was tremendously helpful to a GAMA newbie like myself, but I'll put in a plug (following that disclaimer) for their upcoming stuff - Vigilance (d20 Supers) looks sweet and they had PDF printouts of two more upcoming products - Tarot Magic and another called Guilds and Adventurers - both look sweet - Tarot Magic is a tarot-based casting system complete with classes and G&A is great for those "hire-a-specialist" occasions. Both look very nice... MEG's product quality has, in my mind, boosted itself considerably over the past year.

And I'll steal some of Hal's thunder - but not totally - by announcing that they have a brand new imprint/line coming in under their umbrella (I think the deal was finalized late last week or possibly day of GAMA) and that the product being pitched will definitely pique the interest of a lot of folks out there. I know it's an awful teaser, with no details, but you'll get no more out of me on it - I know Hal will announce it when he gets back. :)

More questions? I may only be able to answer in generalities, but I'll field what I can.

--The Sigil
 
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hardly surprising that people didn't notice given that they were to busy getting upset about one or two spell descriptions, but the extraplanar concept was brought in in Dragon #300 in the fiendish dragons article.
 

There are demodands? Sweet!
My interest in the book, which was already pretty high, just about doubled.

Demiurge out.
 
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