Fighter - additional abilities

[Grymar]

I'm thinking of starting up my first Pathfinder game and reading up on it I've heard that many feel that the fighter is still underpowered. I don't want him to be overpowered, but I'd like for him to have a few options and be a bit more mobile around the battlefield so he can be a better defender. What do you guys think about the following three extra abilities?

3rd Level Ability: Armor Training


In addition to the bonuses give in the Pathfinder RPG, a fighter is now able to move his full base rate when lightly encumbered in his trained armor. He can still only run at triple speed in heavy armor, not quadruple.



6th Level Ability: Focused Blow


The fighter may choose to forgo his multiple attack in a round for a single, standard-action, blow. In place of each extra attack, the fighter adds +1d6 to the damage roll of a single attack done at the hightest BAB. For example, a 12th level fighter could then move his normal movement for the round and take a single attack at +12 BAB with +2d6 damage.



8th Level Ability: Bulwark Defense


The fighter may choose to give up his extra attacks and as a full-round action focus on defense. This gives him a bonus of +1 per iteratve attack as an insight bonus to AC and all Saves. For example, a 12th level fighter can take one attack (but not a move action) at +12 BAB, and then add a +2 Insight bonus to his AC and all Saves for that round.

 

[roguerouge]

The problem seems to be that the fighter in PfRPG can only do damage. They've nerfed trips, grapples, bullrushes and overruns in various ways that add up. So that means the fighter can no longer control the battlefield as a tank in even the very limited ways he could in the past. Basically, they're a not very mobile "Striker" figure. If you want the Pathfinder fighter to do more than hit stuff, you're going to need to add abilities through house rules to allow him to impose conditions or use AoOs effectively. (Right now, all you can do on an AoO, basically, is hit stuff. Combat maneuvers are, I believe, not allowed. Although Jason's done an about-face on some, but not all, of these CMs.)

 

[Kerrick]

3rd Level Ability: Armor Training

In addition to the bonuses give in the Pathfinder RPG, a fighter is now able to move his full base rate when lightly encumbered in his trained armor. He can still only run at triple speed in heavy armor, not quadruple.

Works for me.

6th Level Ability: Focused Blow

The fighter may choose to forgo his multiple attack in a round for a single, standard-action, blow. In place of each extra attack, the fighter adds +1d6 to the damage roll of a single attack done at the hightest BAB. For example, a 12th level fighter could then move his normal movement for the round and take a single attack at +12 BAB with +2d6 damage.

Improved Vital Strike does pretty much the same thing (sacrifice 2 attacks to add 2 extra dice).

8th Level Ability: Bulwark Defense

The fighter may choose to give up his extra attacks and as a full-round action focus on defense. This gives him a bonus of +1 per iteratve attack as an insight bonus to AC and all Saves. For example, a 12th level fighter can take one attack (but not a move action) at +12 BAB, and then add a +2 Insight bonus to his AC and all Saves for that round.

The problem with fighters is not their AC, but their damage output relative to other PCs. I don't see how this helps.

 

[Kaisoku]

If you check out the new feats that Jason posted in the Pathfinder forums, there's some very nice critical-based, and combat maneuver based feats.

I statted up a 20th Fighter using Two Weapon Fighting. Upwards to 400 damage per full attack, on average. What's the average Meteor Swarm do? Hell, what's the maximum a Meteor Swarm spell can do?

Shield feats allowing free Bull Rush attempts on a bash, and no TWF penalties for using the shield as an offhand weapon.

Critical feats that allow things like stunning, nauseating, bleeding, fear, etc.

All combat maneuvers getting a "Greater" version, usually allowing others to make extra attacks.

For example: Greater Overrun makes it so anyone that fails their check against your Overrun -or- elects to move out of the way, provokes an AoO.
Overrun through your enemies, letting your allies get extra attacks, and then Trip the main boss, getting an AoO when he falls.

The Fighter isn't hurting that bad anymore... he's got quite a few options at his disposal.

 

[Grymar]

Interesting. I have a hard time finding information on their messageboards, since I rarely check them and can't ever seem to find the latest updates. I'll have to see if I can find them.

Is there a place where they are keeping the latest updates?

 

[Set]

I'm thinking of starting up my first Pathfinder game and reading up on it I've heard that many feel that the fighter is still underpowered. I don't want him to be overpowered, but I'd like for him to have a few options and be a bit more mobile around the battlefield so he can be a better defender. What do you guys think about the following three extra abilities?

3rd Level Ability: Armor Training
In addition to the bonuses give in the Pathfinder RPG, a fighter is now able to move his full base rate when lightly encumbered in his trained armor. He can still only run at triple speed in heavy armor, not quadruple.

That's a cool one. Among the various 'house rules' being floated around on this topic;

1) Fighters no longer suffer a movement penalty from proficient armors, only from encumbrance.
2) All armors work this way for *all* proficient characters.
3) Medium armors only reduce movement by 5, not 10.

6th Level Ability: Focused Blow
The fighter may choose to forgo his multiple attack in a round for a single, standard-action, blow. In place of each extra attack, the fighter adds +1d6 to the damage roll of a single attack done at the hightest BAB. For example, a 12th level fighter could then move his normal movement for the round and take a single attack at +12 BAB with +2d6 damage.

Another popular one.

My version of this back in Alpha was extra damage dice based on the weapon die. Someone sacrificing two iterative attacks with a longsword that does 1d8 would do +2d8. Someone sacrificing two iterative attacks with a greatsword doing 2d6 would do +4d6.

8th Level Ability: Bulwark Defense
The fighter may choose to give up his extra attacks and as a full-round action focus on defense. This gives him a bonus of +1 per iteratve attack as an insight bonus to AC and all Saves. For example, a 12th level fighter can take one attack (but not a move action) at +12 BAB, and then add a +2 Insight bonus to his AC and all Saves for that round.

That's a neat one.

My own suggestions for Fighters, back in Alpha, were;

1) Damage bonus with melee or ranged weapons (or even unarmed attacks) equal to 1/2 Fighter level, rounded down. A 1st level Fighter does +1 damage, 1 3rd level Fighter +2, etc. up to +10 damage at 19th level.

2) Improved benefit from proficient armor. A Fighter gains an extra +1 armor bonus from any light armor worn, an extra +2 armor bonus from any medium armor worn and an extra +3 armor bonus from any heavy armor worn.

3) A class ability that allows the Fighter to swap modifiers around, similar to Power Attack (+dam, -atk) and Combat Expertise (+def, -atk). With the new damage bonus option in 1), the Fighter would be able to take 'Precise Attack' (-dam, +atk) as an option, for example. Other classes can take the Combat Expertise and Power Attack feats to simulate these options, but a Fighter should get them right out of the box, learning how to 'choke up' on a swing to get more power or accuracy, or fight more defensively, as part of 'Fighter 101.'

4) The option to impose Conditions with special strikes. Blow to the head to daze (success) or stun (sucess +5) a foe for a round or two. Slashing blow to the temple to open a bleeding wound and dazzle (success) or blind (success +5) a foe for a round or two. Morningstar to the junk to sicken (success) or nauseate (success +5) a foe for a round or two. Half of the Conditions in the DMG could be imposed by an appropriate weapon to a particular body part, and there are a few floating around (such as the 'lamed' condition imposed by Caltrops) that could also be worked into such a series of options.

These shouldn't be Feats only available to 16th level Fighters who critically hit someone. That's lame beyond lame. Perhaps they should be feats, but they should be feats that any low level Fighter can start taking, since the majority of them, upon 'success' will only be inflicting a -1 or -2 penalty to rolls for a round or two. Given that a successful Intimidate skill use can do that much, they certainly don't need to be high-tier options!

5) Extra dice option instead of iterative attacks, as you mention above.

6) Ability to be a 'lightly armored warrior.' At 1st level, a Fighter can choose to sacrifice Heavy Armor and Tower Shield proficiency for a +1 dodge bonus to Armor Class. He can also choose to sacrifice Medium Armor and Heavy Shield proficiency for *another* +1 dodge bonus to Armor Class. He can also choose to sacrifice Light Armor and Light Shield proficiency for a third and final +1 dodge bonus to Armor Class. If someone comes from the desert, and will never be wearing anything heavier than a Chain Shirt, he can give up Heavy and Medium Armor proficiencies (and larger shields) for a +2 Dodge Bonus to AC. It's not a replacement for full plate, but it's better than nothing!

 

[Kaisoku]

Interesting. I have a hard time finding information on their messageboards, since I rarely check them and can't ever seem to find the latest updates. I'll have to see if I can find them.

Is there a place where they are keeping the latest updates?

When Jason Bulmahn has something for playtesting, he'll usually put it up in the Announcements section. Rarely, I've seen him put up a "Design Focus" titled thread with some ideas on a change he hasn't really fully fleshed out yet (Animal Companions update was one like this).

The thread I was talking about is here.

 

[ruemere]

I believe you are looking for Pathfinder RPG Beta Playtest reference thread.

All the updates and, as added value, PFRPG BETA index.

Regards,
Ruemere

 

[Corinth]

Starting at 6th Level, the Fighter may make a Full Attack regardless of movement as an Extraordinary Ability. Merry Christmas.