Fighter adjustment and champion rework ideas?

[DEFCON 1]

My opinion has always been...

"Use the Battlemaster as your basic Fighter because it really ain't that hard to understand. Especially if you give the person the most basic of the maneuvers."

And if the player is still incapable of understanding how to use the Battlemaster and really just wants to use the Champion because it's "the easiest"... then they aren't going to care if the Champion isn't supposedly "as good" as the Battlemaster. After all... if they really cared about class and subclass comparison, they'd actually bother to learn the game and the rules that come with it in the first place.

 

[Mort]

Like others, I crunched the numbers for the improved critical hits and it is pretty bad. A 19-20 really isn't a great ability. The only real benefit is that it is ALL the time, which helps make up for the *meh* damage increase a bit.

True, but the problem is the champion has no control over when that extra damage happens. Meaning it's not there when they really need it unless they get lucky. In a real sense, the champion fighters big ability in combat isn't so much always on as randomly on.

In contrast, the BM fighter has full control as to when they need to spike their damage. The EK fighter has similar control over their abilities. It's a big difference as levels progress.

I actually really like the static extra damage proposed earlier in the thread.

 

[Sacrosanct]

I know a lot of people don't like the champion, but what I think gets overlooked a lot are two really important things:

1. Their abilities go on forever and ever, regardless of short or long rests. Players don't always dictate when they can rest--the game does that. Often you can't have the time to take a rest. So while the casters are out of spells, and the paladins are out of smites, it's the fighter who keeps dealing the best damage over and over. So it's a preference thing. Do you want bursts of extra power a limited number of times, or do you want lower burst damage but spread out ad infinitum?

2. Not every class needs to appeal to you (general you). Just because you don't like a class, or think it's boring, doesn't make it a bad class. The game is designed to appeal to a lot of people, with different playstyles. The champion is not a starter or noob class like is often claimed. Plenty of experienced players prefer it because their preferred style is different (e.g., they might not like resource management but prefer a narrative or role play heavy focus). It's the same reason why plenty of experienced players still played B/X instead of AD&D.

 

[Ancalagon]

The trouble was, it pretty much completely replaced barbarian as well..

How so? Thematically? Mechanistically?

 

[Cap'n Kobold]

It would make a single level dip highly exploitable with barbarian multiclass or feats like elven accuracy.

That's why I specified for a non-multiclassing game only.

I'm not sure that Elven Accuracy is an issue - don't you have to use Finesse weapons for it?
So when you get advantage you would have a higher chance for a crit, but you will not be dealing as much damage as someone using a non-finesse weapon in many cases, since Crits are dice only.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

That's why I specified for a non-multiclassing game only.

I'm not sure that Elven Accuracy is an issue - don't you have to use Finesse weapons for it?
So when you get advantage you would have a higher chance for a crit, but you will not be dealing as much damage as someone using a non-finesse weapon in many cases, since Crits are dice only.

Ninja edit?

Try Elven Accuracy with a longbow Champion/Arcane Trickster.

If for some strange reason you must disallow multiclassing, you could aways pick up Hex via Magic Initiate for your elven crit fisher champion build.

Ninja Edit by me: Heavy crossbow. 1d10, Elven Accuracy and Improved Critical both apply. Crossbow Master feat needed though.

Ninja Edit 2: It requires multiclassing, but a hexblade could use elven accuracy with a 2H sword. It applies to any attack that doesn't use strength.

 

[Cap'n Kobold]

Ninja edit?

You can see when I last edited it by the little italic text at the bottom of the post.