D&D (2024) Fighter brainstorm

[Sacrosanct]

"I saw this" doesn't mean "issue wide among all gamers." Especially since no one was talking about it in any measurable sense.

but you know, you seem intent to keep replying to things I'm not arguing or are dead set on misrepresenting it, and are calling people who don't share your preferences liars at this point, so I think we're done here.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

"I saw this" doesn't mean "issue wide among all gamers." Especially since no one was talking about it in any measurable sense.

they were by the middle of 3.5 let alone the end of it.

Since my argument is that pre WotC (so pre2000) handled things very diffrent but still had a balance, and that non 4e WotC editions (aka 200-2008 and then 2014+) blew that balance up...

but you know, you seem intent to keep replying to things I'm not arguing or are dead set on misrepresenting it, and are calling people who don't share your preferences liars at this point, so I think we're done here.

lol YOU called them liars... I told you I am WAY more likely to say they don't get what I am saying... but sure, YOU call someone a liar then storm off cause "someone said someone is a liar"

 

[Zubatcarteira]

There are a lot of issues with the Fighter that have to do with the system itself, skills not doing a ton, saving throws scaling horribly, power attack feats outperforming other weapons by a lot, etc.

I think just adding more uses for skills would fix a lot of the problems, and make them actually good at strength-based ones compared to classes with expertise. At-will maneuvers would be great as well.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

There are a lot of issues with the Fighter that have to do with the system itself, skills not doing a ton, saving throws scaling horribly, power attack feats outperforming other weapons by a lot, etc.

I think just adding more uses for skills would fix a lot of the problems, and make them actually good at strength-based ones compared to classes with expertise. At-will maneuvers would be great as well.

if you gave the base fighter BOTH champion and battle master things (so increase crit, and manuvers and a second fighting style and free half prof in psyical checks) then let them pick a sub class on top of that you would still find they are (way too high for damage) not as versitile as a half caster (let alone a full one).
heck throw some skill expertise give them full jack of all trades from bard and give them that to saves they aren't prof in too... upgrade there HD to d12s too

 

[GMforPowergamers]

the real problem is the double way we mess with fighters, and the best way to look at it is to look at the middle earth 5e book.

a bard with no spell casting and a ranger with no spell casting is still on par with a fighter and a rogue

 

[Incenjucar]

Obviously not happening with OE, but I think that martial classes defaulting to being experts and magical classes having magic instead would make a lot of sense.

 

[Sacrosanct]

yes. I am. (I mean I am normally more generous and assume they don't understand, the concept of the problem like you don't seem to)

lol YOU called them liars... I told you I am WAY more likely to say they don't get what I am saying... but sure, YOU call someone a liar then storm off cause "someone said someone is a liar"

I didn't call them a liar. I asked if you were calling them one and you said yes. It's right there in your quote. Oh wait, then you're saying they aren't liars, they (and me) just aren't smart enough to understand the concept. You win irony awards for making this comment right after agreeing with Garthanos about how much you dislike when people imply you're not smart/creative enough to understand the simple fighter (despite no one actually saying that just like no one actually said all fighters need to be simple).

That's why I think this conversation isn't going anywhere. I didn't storm off, but if you need to make aspersions about someone's mindset in order to feel better, I can't stop you.

 

[FitzTheRuke]

if it is just prefrence then we should have simple martial and simple casters also complex martial and complex casters

I think most players would welcome that. I know I would.

 

[James Gasik]

As a group of middle schoolers, we handed the fighter off to the least nerdy person in the group quite consistently. I played a fighter once and chafed mightily against the limitations and ended up playing them as a low-skill rogue just to survive. Never set so many traps in the whole rest of my D&D career. These are all old discussions.

I mean, try playing a 2e Thief where even optimizing gives you at best a 50/50 to find or deal with a trap, lol. But ok, I'll chalk it up to different play experiences; the people I played 2e with were quite happy to play melee combat machines with tons of hit points. I was the only person to really play Wizards because you do a whole lot of nothing for quite some time, and can die to a stiff breeze.

 

[Umbran]

Mod Note:
@GMforPowergamers and @Sacrosanct

The point at which you have to argue over who said who is a liar is a point as which you should probably disengage, before someone does something they will regret.

Please bring this back into "friendly conversation" territory, or find something more constructive to do with your time. Thanks.