D&D (2024) Fighter brainstorm

[Incenjucar]

I mean, try playing a 2e Thief where even optimizing gives you at best a 50/50 to find or deal with a trap, lol. But ok, I'll chalk it up to different play experiences; the people I played 2e with were quite happy to play melee combat machines with tons of hit points. I was the only person to really play Wizards because you do a whole lot of nothing for quite some time, and can die to a stiff breeze.

Thief had a similar issue in our group. I usually played a ranger, though my favorite character was a pyromaniac ninja because they had skills AND durability AND fun alchemical tricks (my avatar is a distant reference to them!). Still kind of sucked how completely I was outclassed by the wizard, though. I spent a bunch of gold and effort to plant lamp oil in wine skins, they just used web + fireball.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

redacted due to red text

I just want to have a conversation without defending a set of words I didn't use

 

[James Gasik]

Thief had a similar issue in our group. I usually played a ranger, though my favorite character was a pyromaniac ninja because they had skills AND durability AND fun alchemical tricks (my avatar is a distant reference to them!). Still kind of sucked how completely I was outclassed by the wizard, though. I spent a bunch of gold and effort to plant lamp oil in wine skins, they just used web + fireball.

It can happen, but having played said Wizard, you can't do that all the time, so you do have to pick and choose when to drop spells, and that means there's a lot of time spent cowering and throwing darts or whatnot.

Or worse, the DM refuses to believe your spells do what they say they do. I have a friend who still plays 2e regularly, and his nephew (who almost exclusively plays big meathead Fighters) was DMing when my friend dropped an Evard's Black Tentacles on a fight, causing everything to come to a crashing halt.

They read the spell like 5 times. The DM eventually shook his head and says "no, that has to be a mistake" and houseruled it into oblivion on the spot.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

It can happen, but having played said Wizard, you can't do that all the time, so you do have to pick and choose when to drop spells, and that means there's a lot of time spent cowering and throwing darts or whatnot.

excapt you don't have to pick and choose anymore...

in 2e a 5th level mage had 7 spells per day 4 1st 2 2nd and 1 3rd... if you preped them all as fire spells that's all you can do.

in 5e you have 2levels of recall on a short rest, can prep 5+ int mod (most likely 3) spells and have 4/3/2 so 2 more spells before arcane recover... and you can have a 2d10 firebolt at will and 3 other cantrips

 

[Garthanos]

Thief had a similar issue in our group. I usually played a ranger, though my favorite character was a pyromaniac ninja because they had skills AND durability AND fun alchemical tricks (my avatar is a distant reference to them!). Still kind of sucked how completely I was outclassed by the wizard, though. I spent a bunch of gold and effort to plant lamp oil in wine skins, they just used web + fireball.

1e thief was basically useless from the start and only got worse if the group had experience. .. the fighter had a short stint unless they were highly dm supported (with relics and the like)

 

[James Gasik]

excapt you don't have to pick and choose anymore...

in 2e a 5th level mage had 7 spells per day 4 1st 2 2nd and 1 3rd... if you preped them all as fire spells that's all you can do.

in 5e you have 2levels of recall on a short rest, can prep 5+ int mod (most likely 3) spells and have 4/3/2 so 2 more spells before arcane recover... and you can have a 2d10 firebolt at will and 3 other cantrips

Yeah, I was just talking about my AD&D Wizard experiences in that post.

 

[James Gasik]

1e thief was basically useless from the start and only got worse if the group had experience. .. the fighter had a short stint unless they were highly dm supported (with relics and the like)

Well the game did support the Fighter IF the random magic tables were employed; most weapons were swords, and 25% of those swords came with the...upside (?) of being intelligent. Plus there were quite a few items that only Fighters could use.

 

[Garthanos]

Well the game did support the Fighter IF the random magic tables were employed;

I didnt even like those...

most weapons were swords, and 25% of those swords came with the...upside (?) of being intelligent. Plus there were quite a few items that only Fighters could use.

That +2 weapon on that 9th level fighter sure felt lame (actual experience) LOL , 2e eventually added quite a few buffs via weapon specialization I hear? Since no adventures I seen played over a certain level used the uber low hd monsters so that minion crushing might as well have been non-existent.

 

[Garthanos]

Yeah, I was just talking about my AD&D Wizard experiences in that post.

You were supposed to win the spell lotto so that the party always rested you to get that sleep spell back.

 

[Clint_L]

Fighters are the most popular class in 5e, and one of the strongest, excelling at two principal pillars of the game. No party is disappointed to have a fighter with them. In terms of complexity, that comes down to subclass, and how you choose to play them.

If your standard for good is having as many options as a high level wizard, then that’s not going to happen with a fighter in 5e. It’s just not. It would also be ridiculously unbalanced given how good fighters already are. So I’m not going to waste time arguing about why fighters should be designed completely different, and will focus on ideas that could actually happen.