Bill Zebub
“It’s probably Matt Mercer’s fault.”
That people are fine with this state of affairs never fails to confuse me.
I suspect it's because somehow they are having fun playing the game.
That people are fine with this state of affairs never fails to confuse me.
Well, yeah. I mean, I doubt anyone would play a game if they weren't having fun. But it's an aspect of the game that isn't fun for me. I mean, as a player, sure, I could avoid certain classes/subclasses. It bothers me, because I don't think that's right, but it is what it is, and it's not unique to this version of D&D- every version has had questionable options.I suspect it's because somehow they are having fun playing the game.
Or the less kind way to say that is that D&D shoves that responsibility onto the DM because it isn't willing to actually encode niche protection or spotlight balance into the rules, despite giving a nod and a wink that they should matter.Back in DND land this is something that tends to be more on the DM than the game itseld; niche protection isn't a thing 5e emphasizes because its not trying to force people to play a particular role, so you're going to have overlaps in abilities.
Those overlaps may on occasion be stark, but it still comes down to how the adventure is being run whether or not that even matters.
Unfortunately, I don't think that this is a solvable problem so long as the designers build and the players expect multiple classes that overlap the same problem-solving space. By that I mean that, so long as there are more classes that deal with combat by hitting things with sticks, you're going to have this issue.Well, yeah. I mean, I doubt anyone would play a game if they weren't having fun. But it's an aspect of the game that isn't fun for me. I mean, as a player, sure, I could avoid certain classes/subclasses. It bothers me, because I don't think that's right, but it is what it is, and it's not unique to this version of D&D- every version has had questionable options.
But when I DM, it really bugs me to know that my players will pick a class because it seems cool to them, and then somewhere down the road wonder why they are having difficulties other players are not, or why another player is allowed to outshine them at something their character is supposedly good at. They start to struggle, they wonder if they're doing something wrong, and eventually I have to tell them "I'm sorry, but that's just how your class was built".
I've tried to combat this, by telling players in advance that some options aren't as good as they seem, but I generally get strange looks or even pushback. One AL player even told me I was wrong, because "there's no way they'd make a subclass bad".
And you know, a lot of times, even "bad" choices can shine, in certain situations. It's not like the game doesn't work at all. But why it isn't better is what bothers me. There's no reason the Eldritch Knight isn't even a half-caster, but it's perfectly fine to hand out Extra Attack to arcane casters, for example.
Or why the Cleric, which has always been designed as a Tier 2 melee class, doesn't get Extra Attack (save for the limited version from the War Domain).
The playtest Ranger got sorted into the skilled class category, given Expertise, and it's magic buffed, while retaining it's combat abilities, and some people are still saying "man, I hope the Fighter stays basic".
Or the less kind way to say that is that D&D shoves that responsibility onto the DM because it isn't willing to actually encode niche protection or spotlight balance into the rules, despite giving a nod and a wink that they should matter.
The issue is that the non-casters would like the option to have as much to do as the casters without having to be casters instead of magic being the correct answer for anyone who wants to actually do stuff.
Spells are Do The Thing buttons. Skills are Do The Thing buttons. Casters also get skills in addition to spells.The thing is is that non-casters do have that option through skills, tools, and equipment.
What you're actually asking for is explicit "do the thing" buttons, which really isn't good design to begin with; Casters shouldn't have them either, and the alternatives should be more mechanically robust.
Spells are Do The Thing buttons. Skills are Do The Thing buttons. Casters also get skills in addition to spells.