Fighter Feat Choice: Cleave vs. Hold the Line?

[Dross]

I'll add my voice to the Cleave over Hold the Line.

By the way, Shining South has a newer (?) version of HtL which states that any charging foe that comes into your threat range allows for an AoO, you don't have to be the receiver of the charge. This might get you a few more uses.

 

[Darklone]

IIRC Hold the line does only give you that extra attack if the opponent charges YOU, not into your threatened area, right?

If I am right, get Cleave. If I am wrong, I'd go for style and fun and 2 extra attacks if someone is charging into my threatened area and would go for a reach weapon

 

[Ciaran]

Thanks for the helpful advice, guys! I was hoping for a less decisive set of responses; Hold the Line is a somewhat better fit for my character concept, so it was my first choice. But I'll be playing ths character in a pretty dangerous campaign world, and taking Cleave sounds like a reasonable step towards keeping my character and the rest of the party alive.

 

[Endur]

I recommend Cleave and possibly Great Cleave. Cleave is always useful; Great Cleave is more situational.

Great Cleave is particularly valuable against hordes of enemies. When you are facing one or two enemies, it isn't useful. Great Cleave also requires that your character does a lot of damage in a single attack. If you have a lot of strength (i.e. raging barbarian or size large or larger), Great Cleave is worth its weight in gold. If your strength is reasonable but not Hercules level (i.e. human/dwarven fighter), great cleave is not as useful.

 

[nittanytbone]

Cleave is most useful at lower levels.

At higher levels, Hold the Line is important to deter enemies from charging.

Charging at hihg levels is the key to many high-damage attack, such as massive damage via high levels of PA combined with things like Shock Trooper/Leap Attack or a better chance to hit with a nasty save or die effect.

 

[tomBitonti]

One action yields one AOO

The good thing about Hold the Line with reach weapon is you get 2 AoO. One when they move to 10' from you, then again when they move from 10' to 5'. That can be deadly.

I thought that a single action could provoke at most a single AOO (from a single attacker).

Thx,

TomBitonti

 

[Bad Paper]

If you're going the Combat Reflexes route, then consider Stand Still. I have been thinking about this one, but I've never seen it played. Has anyone toyed with Stand Still?

 

[Darklone]

I thought that a single action could provoke at most a single AOO (from a single attacker).

Thx,

TomBitonti

Kinda. In that case the guy causes an AoO upon charging into the square and another one by leaving the square.

 

[Inconsequenti-AL]

I saw one player get a lot of mileage of Hold the Line, Spring Attack and a large movement speed - he caused opponents all kinds of problems... although it was a very specific build. And probably not that useful if you're the only fighter in the party.

I'd say cleave first, it's going to be useful right throughout your career, as long as you fight more than 1 opponent at least sometimes.

 

[boolean]

It depends a lot on the style of the campaign and which other feats you take. Hold the Line is very useful if you can use the AoO it grants to hinder your foes' ability to hurt you. Disarm, trip, sunder, or grapple in particular could be a good use of the AoO. These are very useful against humanoid opponents, but are difficult or impossible against giants or dragons for example.