D&D (2024) Fighter (Playtest 7)

[Kinematics]

Thank you for the chart.
But I have to rant about abilities like that where you start adding proficiency bonus at levels where it is already +5.
Such abilities should best be available before level 5. So that they can actually scale.
Why not just add a flat +5 to damage at that level. Or +con to damage or whatever. Gaining proficiency bonus at that level is just weird.

Yeah, it's a very strange feature grant so late in the game. In fact... If I get rid of the damage scaling dice from Shillelagh, and just give +PB damage as a subclass feature from level 3, and only expect a 1d6 typical improvised damage die, then the overall curve is right on par with the other builds.

Chart:

That's a problem the brawler class needs to fix. I've suggested that improvised weapons in the hands of a brawler use the brawler's unarmed damage - but get a one use bonus the first time you use a specific object type you didn't bring into the scene.

Using the unarmed damage die (1d6, or 1d8 for two-handed) with +PB damage (as above) seems like it would work pretty well. 1d6 is on par with things like a rapier/booming blade EK, while 1d8 is on par with the PAM build. Wouldn't even need to bump the damage die at level 18, and use that feature slot for something more creative.

So assuming we start with the predefined damage die, improvised weapons gets the flexible weapon properties and masteries on top of that. That's a decent bit of flexibility. Meanwhile, the unarmed strikes aren't second-class options. They do the same damage, but have options for grappling. I'd like a little bit more, there, but don't have any ideas for what, exactly, right now.

And this change would remove the level 18 feature, and half of the level 15 feature, which means those would have to be filled in with something else.

 

[mellored]

This is highly dubious (and an obvious attempt to have your cake and eat it), and definitely requires a friendly DM. If it's clublike enough to shillelagh then it's clublike enough to not be treated as an improvised weapon.

Not sure why you couldn't use a weapon as an improvised weapon.

Kinda weird for a DM to say, "That quarter staff is too much like a quarter staff to use as a quarter staff. You can only use the broom as a quarter staff".

Brawler rules don't make a lot of sense at the moment.

Yeah, it's a very strange feature grant so late in the game. In fact... If I get rid of the damage scaling dice from Shillelagh, and just give +PB damage as a subclass feature from level 3, and only expect a 1d6 typical improvised damage die, then the overall curve is right on par with the other builds.

Seems to me any 1-handed build would go for Shillelagh.

Or since the club is a light weapon, you can dual wield 2d6.

 

[Neonchameleon]

Not sure why you couldn't use a weapon as an improvised weapon.

Kinda weird for a DM to say, "That quarter staff is too much like a quarter staff to use as a quarter staff. You can only use the broom as a quarter staff".

If it's clublike enough to fit standard magical parameters then it's clublike enough for whoever is facing it to be able to expect what you will do with it. So no bonuses.

Seems to me any 1-handed build would go for Shillelagh.

That's the problem. Nothing not explicitly on the class feature list should be that centralising.

 

[mellored]

If it's clublike enough to fit standard magical parameters then it's clublike enough for whoever is facing it to be able to expect what you will do with it. So no bonuses.

Your probably right about the intention. d6 for 1 handed and d8 for 2 handed, without any other feature.

But that is not the rule.

Often, an improvised weapon is similar to an actual weapon and can be treated as such. For example, a table leg is akin to a club.

So by RAW, a chair leg is an improvised weapon that a can be treated as a club. So both would apply (as would 2 weapon masteries).