D&D 5E Fighters are amazing!

[Henry]

I don't see how this is different than regular play.

It just makes a difference in the narrative. It allows for time constraints to be more believable in the plot.

You would space out the encounters as well, having 6-8 per long rest.

If they are doing something like a dungeon crawl it makes it even more important to have a base of operations outside of the dungeon with henchmen and such guarding their camp. It also means it doesn't take a month of game time to reach 20th level.

Which is precisely what we used to do in our old D&D/AD&D days. The main reason I wouldn't use it these days is real-life time constraints. Our groups only game twice a month, for about 4 to 5 hours per session; therefore, we're not amenable to taking dozens of real time hours carefully delving, retreating for resource recoupment, coming back, et cetera. For the way an old-school game used to run in practice, it would probably work great.

 

[KarinsDad]

Any wizard without a back-up (or two) placed in safe places is not worth their salt

Do you know how much this costs? It's easy to say this in theory, but tougher to manage in practice.

My 4th level PC currently has (because we have a multiclass wizard in our party who he could copy additional spells from) 13 first level spells and 4 second level spells. It would cost him 50 GP for a spellbook, 130 GP to copy his first level spells and 80 GP to copy his second level spells or 260 GP per spare spell book (so far).

It is already costing him 250 GP to add 5 additional first level spells to his book (he has yet to add an additional second level spell) and that has wiped out most of his extra cash so far.


Even if he did not place the spells that he prepares every day (like Mage Armor so far), it would still be costly.

 

[Staffan]

Do you know how much this costs? It's easy to say this in theory, but tougher to manage in practice.

My 4th level PC currently has (because we have a multiclass wizard in our party who he could copy additional spells from) 13 first level spells and 4 second level spells. It would cost him 50 GP for a spellbook, 130 GP to copy his first level spells and 80 GP to copy his second level spells or 260 GP per spare spell book (so far).

And yet I hear other people complain that since you can't buy magic items, there's nothing to spend your loot on in 5e...

 

[KarinsDad]

And yet I hear other people complain that since you can't buy magic items, there's nothing to spend your loot on in 5e...

Who said that you cannot buy magic items?

The designers did not give magic item costs, but there is the cost to craft table on page 129 of the DMG. A DM could use that as a starting point.

 

[Staffan]

Who said that you cannot buy magic items?

The DMG. Page 135: "Unless you decide your campaign works otherwise, most magic items are so rare that they aren't available for purchase."

In 3e, the default is "If you're in a big enough settlement, you can buy magic items costing up to X gp (depending on the size of the settlement)." There are also hard and fast rules for making the items, and it's not that difficult. 4e is even more friendly toward item commerce, where roving merchants sell them even in rural locations, and making them is even easier (though not as cost-effective).

But in 5e, the default is "You can't buy or craft magic items other than potions of healing." There are some guidelines in case you do want to allow characters to craft items (and doing so is a lot harder than 3e and 4e), but you're pretty much on your own if you want to have them for sale.

 

[abirdcall]

Which is precisely what we used to do in our old D&D/AD&D days. The main reason I wouldn't use it these days is real-life time constraints. Our groups only game twice a month, for about 4 to 5 hours per session; therefore, we're not amenable to taking dozens of real time hours carefully delving, retreating for resource recoupment, coming back, et cetera. For the way an old-school game used to run in practice, it would probably work great.

X game hours do not have to equate to Y real time hours.

You just say you spent a week resting and it happens in 5 seconds. No different than saying you spend 8 hours resting.

There is no difference. You skip over the parts that aren't interesting.

 

[KarinsDad]

The DMG. Page 135: "Unless you decide your campaign works otherwise, most magic items are so rare that they aren't available for purchase."

In 3e, the default is "If you're in a big enough settlement, you can buy magic items costing up to X gp (depending on the size of the settlement)." There are also hard and fast rules for making the items, and it's not that difficult. 4e is even more friendly toward item commerce, where roving merchants sell them even in rural locations, and making them is even easier (though not as cost-effective).

But in 5e, the default is "You can't buy or craft magic items other than potions of healing." There are some guidelines in case you do want to allow characters to craft items (and doing so is a lot harder than 3e and 4e), but you're pretty much on your own if you want to have them for sale.

"Unless you decide your campaign works otherwise"

No doubt that the default is to not allow purchases (which was also the default in 2E), but many other versions of the game (and hence, many past campaigns) had options for this. Just because this is the default does not mean that this has to be used or even that some heavy majority of 5E DMs will use it. They'll use what they want to use.


The point is that once PCs start accumulating larger amounts of gold in 5E, those players who could purchase magic items in past campaigns might request a way to do so in 5E.

 

[Erik42]

It is entirely up to the DM. But even if one is generally unable to buy magic items in their campaign, there is plenty to spend gold on provided the DM allows the PCs to create lives outside of the dungeon. Some money might be lost to taxes and upkeep, dues to factions or guild memberships. Characters can purchase property, invest in a business, hire henchmen and followers. While the rules no longer provide for automatic followers, there is nothing to prevent the PCs from hiring them, or even the DM ruling that they attract followers which are required to be fed and sheltered. Stronghold development is always a significant ongoing cost. How are the PC's storing their money? Is it vulnerable to theft? There are nearly unlimited ways for PCs to spend money that don't involve magic items.

 

[KarinsDad]

It is entirely up to the DM. But even if one is generally unable to buy magic items in their campaign, there is plenty to spend gold on provided the DM allows the PCs to create lives outside of the dungeon. Some money might be lost to taxes and upkeep, dues to factions or guild memberships. Characters can purchase property, invest in a business, hire henchmen and followers. While the rules no longer provide for automatic followers, there is nothing to prevent the PCs from hiring them, or even the DM ruling that they attract followers which are required to be fed and sheltered. Stronghold development is always a significant ongoing cost. How are the PC's storing their money? Is it vulnerable to theft? There are nearly unlimited ways for PCs to spend money that don't involve magic items.

While I agree with your examples, I do think that it is implausible for magic items to exist, but there be no market for them. Granted, the people who acquire most magic items should be a) royalty, b) clergy, c) nobility, d) military, e) merchants, and f) adventurers, but it just doesn't make sense that magic items are worth so much that they cannot generally be purchased, but then, adventurers find them willy nilly in dungeons or on enemies, and such.

They are not so rare that (for most tables) PCs never find them. Every valuable object in a human-centric civilization should have some type of market.

This has always seemed like a meta-game rule designed to force PCs to go adventuring and designed to make magic items appear to be "special". It's illogical. PCs will go adventuring anyway and magic items are only as special as the DM presents them and the players view them.

 

[Staffan]

"Unless you decide your campaign works otherwise"

Exactly. In 5e, the DM has to make an active choice to allow the purchase of magic items, and figure out rules for how to do it (the rules only cover crafting and selling), whereas in 3e/4e the DM has to make an active choice to disallow it.