Fighters are Weak? I think not!!
- Thread starter Master-of-Mayhem
- Start date
Gez
First Post
No. The monk or the druid aren't bland -- they get unique stuff at nearly each level.
Sorcerers and wizards, on the other hand, are bland. They don't seem to lose anything (familiar stuff notwithstanding) when taking a prestige class.
Prestige classes are selected for their blandlessness. Giving unique stuff, even useless stuff, at each level, goes a long way toward eliminating blandness.
When looking at a class, ask yourself "do I mess anything if I multi?"
If the answer is "nope", then the class is bland. It is uninspiring to continue with it.
Is a fighter less of a fighter if he takes a PrC like Weapon Master, or multi in Ranger, Paladin or Barbarian ?
Sorcerers and wizards, on the other hand, are bland. They don't seem to lose anything (familiar stuff notwithstanding) when taking a prestige class.
Prestige classes are selected for their blandlessness. Giving unique stuff, even useless stuff, at each level, goes a long way toward eliminating blandness.
When looking at a class, ask yourself "do I mess anything if I multi?"
If the answer is "nope", then the class is bland. It is uninspiring to continue with it.
Is a fighter less of a fighter if he takes a PrC like Weapon Master, or multi in Ranger, Paladin or Barbarian ?
Thresher
First Post
Looking over my collection of still active characters, and down here, not getting played enough is a 6th level LG human fighter.
From day one this little fighter was an absolute beat-down master, a few feat chains, a guisarme and it was delightful to just have it trip enemies over then smash the nuts off anything that charged though its threatened area. Basically its sort of made in response to the whinning of the casters having the party meleetards run off and no one to defend them, so I made up a 'defensive' tank and it surpassed and far exceeded my expectations in how effective it would be.
(And no spiked chain to be seen... god I hate that weapon)
I love playing this character when I can, its just so much simple fun! (having come from a 30th level wiz's spell selecting every morning, ugh, never playing another spellcaster in this bloody game)
So far, I think the nicest thing about playing a fighter was how easily they multiclass into just about any non-spellcasting class like rogue or monk for some flexibility and much needed the skill points, its annoying that someone decided to railroad them into skill selections by simply making them run, jump, climb, ug and hit stuff with other stuff. Maybe when DnD matures they'll give up on the idea of class skills and have something a bit more open, or maybe when I can get around to house ruling some more.
Its a bit disconcerting to see a lot of people bag out an essentially fun class, having seen fighters from 1st to 15th to 30th level they do one thing well, punish! A well tooled up and equiped fighter is something to be feared by GM's and players alike, the damage output on some high level tanks that are only marginally optimised is trully scary.
And they can keep doing it long after the casters run out of spells.
From day one this little fighter was an absolute beat-down master, a few feat chains, a guisarme and it was delightful to just have it trip enemies over then smash the nuts off anything that charged though its threatened area. Basically its sort of made in response to the whinning of the casters having the party meleetards run off and no one to defend them, so I made up a 'defensive' tank and it surpassed and far exceeded my expectations in how effective it would be.
(And no spiked chain to be seen... god I hate that weapon)
I love playing this character when I can, its just so much simple fun! (having come from a 30th level wiz's spell selecting every morning, ugh, never playing another spellcaster in this bloody game)
So far, I think the nicest thing about playing a fighter was how easily they multiclass into just about any non-spellcasting class like rogue or monk for some flexibility and much needed the skill points, its annoying that someone decided to railroad them into skill selections by simply making them run, jump, climb, ug and hit stuff with other stuff. Maybe when DnD matures they'll give up on the idea of class skills and have something a bit more open, or maybe when I can get around to house ruling some more.
Its a bit disconcerting to see a lot of people bag out an essentially fun class, having seen fighters from 1st to 15th to 30th level they do one thing well, punish! A well tooled up and equiped fighter is something to be feared by GM's and players alike, the damage output on some high level tanks that are only marginally optimised is trully scary.
And they can keep doing it long after the casters run out of spells.
johnsemlak
First Post
My old dwarf fighter was amazing at the mid levels. With the Great Cleave feat and multiple attacks, he was killing 3-4 opponents per round some times. Never saw him as weaker than other characters, stronger if anything. We didn't get to high levels.
I agree with most posters here. With the correct selection of feats (EWP: Spiked Chain, Combat Reflexes, Cleave, Great Cleave, etc.) a Fighter can be a terror in combat.
However, with that said, there are no good reasons to play a high-level Fighter. Due to lack of feats with high BAB as a pre-req, Fighter is actually a good multi-class option for many PCs.
However, with that said, there are no good reasons to play a high-level Fighter. Due to lack of feats with high BAB as a pre-req, Fighter is actually a good multi-class option for many PCs.
While I believe fighters are pretty decent, I do find it bothersome that they get better at what they do best (killing things in physical combat) by multi-classing to rogue.
Consider the trade-off. For slightly less HP, BAB, and Fort save, they gain an extra 1d6 damage when they flank an opponent (which is easily accomplished in most battles), a bonus to Ref saves (another Fighter weakness, albeit a reasonable one), lots of skill points with the most extensive skill set of any class (never mind that rogues get as a class skill one of the most useful in-combat skills: Tumble.)
If you can dodge the multiclass XP penalties, there's little reason not to consider this option. In fact, in nearly every campaign I either run (I typically DM) or play, there is not a single warrior PC that does not have at least 1 level of rogue.
Consider the trade-off. For slightly less HP, BAB, and Fort save, they gain an extra 1d6 damage when they flank an opponent (which is easily accomplished in most battles), a bonus to Ref saves (another Fighter weakness, albeit a reasonable one), lots of skill points with the most extensive skill set of any class (never mind that rogues get as a class skill one of the most useful in-combat skills: Tumble.)
If you can dodge the multiclass XP penalties, there's little reason not to consider this option. In fact, in nearly every campaign I either run (I typically DM) or play, there is not a single warrior PC that does not have at least 1 level of rogue.
Tyler Do'Urden
Soap Maker
Avouz said:
If you're trying to make a lightly armored, swashbuckling fighter (like most players these days who aren't playing Dwarven or Half-Orc PC's seem to want to do), this makes sense. On the other hand, if Full Plate and Greatsword are your bag, it's really not that valuable.
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Tyler Do'Urden said:
Considering that when I play a fighter (which is often, it's one of my favorite classes), I often lean toward the greatsword/full-plate type. I'm a little tired of getting upstaged by the fighter/rogue. They simply are able to do more damage, which is why I think either fighter needs a bit of a boost or rogue toned down a notch. (Although not much in either case, since neither class is all that out-of-balance.)
ruleslawyer
Registered User
I don't think it's that, actually. IMHO, the problem is that which gfunk suggested: Fighter is just fine for a few levels, but is far better for dipping. Ftr4/Rgr6/PrC10 makes a better archer than a straight fighter, Ftr4/Bbn16 (or Ftr4/Bbn6/FB, but that's just dangerous) makes a much more effective melee combatant, and Ftr4/Pal1/Clr15 is a better all-round character. The thing that is needed to fix this, IMHO, is a real set of class abilities (not just feats), more and better high-level feats, or a combination of same. IMC, I give fighters a medium Will save (which they desperately need, having only one good save and, unlike other one-save classes, no means to boost save effectiveness through divine grace, rage, evasion, slippery mind, etc.) and allow them (only) to choose from a much more powerful selection of feats from 10th level onward, including Armor Skin, Improved WWA, Overwhelming Critical, and a few others from the ELH (though not the heavy hitters like Damage Reduction and Fast Healing). I also give them Profession as a class skill.
