Figuring Out Critical Hit Damage

[Khaalis]

Ok. I've been reading some threads on DPR and I am now getting confused on how to figure Critical Hit Damage.

Scenario: Level 14 Character
- Assume a Critical hit with a +3 Reckless Katar (1d6 High Crit)
- Assume the following damage bonuses:
----- +3 Enhancement
----- +6 Ability Score
----- +3 Tempest Technique & Agile Tempest
----- +1 Two-Weapon Fighting
----- +2 Weapon Focus
----- +2 Armbands
---(Total Bonus Damage = +17)

* A critical hit deals Maximum Damage, which would be a base 1d6+17 = 23.

* A +3 Reckless Weapon deals an additional +3d8 damage on a Crit.

Now, this is where I start to get confused...

* A High Crit Weapon adds an Additional 2{W} damage on a Crit.

Now is this a flat +2d6?
Or is this +2d6 plus any bonus that boosts a [W] die roll?

My understanding is that any time you receive a notation to roll {W} damage, that you add any bonus that applies to a weapon damage roll.

If so this would mean that the critical hit for this scenario would be:
--- 23 (Base)
--- +3d8 (Magical weapon bonus)
--- +2d6+17 (High Crit 2W bonus die roll with modifiers)
--Or a Total of 3d8+2d6+40 or an Average of 60 damage.

Is that correct?

 

[CapnZapp]

Bonuses to damage isn't part of the {W} notation. You don't get the +17 twice when you use a 2W power, and you don't get it twice when you crit.

So you figure your normal maximum (23 in your example) then you roll those dice you get only because it's a crit. End of story.

 

[Black Knight Irios]

---(Total Bonus Damage = +17)

Right!

* A critical hit deals Maximum Damage, which would be a base 1d6+17 = 23.

If it is a 1[W] power -right!

* A +3 Reckless Weapon deals an additional +3d8 damage on a Crit.

Right.

* A High Crit Weapon adds an Additional 2{W} damage on a Crit.

At paragon tier -right.

Now is this a flat +2d6?

This!
Because it is still the same damage roll, all (static) mods are already included, you are just adding extra die to that damage roll.

My understanding is that any time you receive a notation to roll {W} damage, that you add any bonus that applies to a weapon damage roll.

Right. Unless you already did.

Is that correct?

No.

Your crit damage on this attack would be:
23 (maximized [W] and static mods) + 2d6 (high crit) + 3d8 (weapon enchantment)

 

[Khaalis]

Thanks all. I figured I was right in the first example and not the second. Thanks!

 

[DracoSuave]

Also. If the weapon has brutal X and high crit, the brutal X will apply to the high crit dice (because they are [W] dice) but not the enhancement critical dice.

 

[Christian]

Also. If the weapon has brutal X and high crit, the brutal X will apply to the high crit dice (because they are [W] dice) but not the enhancement critical dice.

AHA!! I've been wondering ever since AV came out, what the difference is between Brutal 2 and just using the next lower damage die with a +2. I.e. a weapon doing 1d8 with Brutal 2 does 3-8 points of damage on a linear curve, same as 1d6+2, so why not just say it does 1d6+2?

This is why. (Don't we have a light bulb icon?) You'd have to distinguish the bonus that counts for x[W] damage bonuses from powers, etc., from the bonuses that don't. By using a separate mechanic, they avoid having to do this.

Smart fellas, those designers. Sometimes.

 

[DracoSuave]

AHA!! I've been wondering ever since AV came out, what the difference is between Brutal 2 and just using the next lower damage die with a +2. I.e. a weapon doing 1d8 with Brutal 2 does 3-8 points of damage on a linear curve, same as 1d6+2, so why not just say it does 1d6+2?

This is why. (Don't we have a light bulb icon?) You'd have to distinguish the bonus that counts for x[W] damage bonuses from powers, etc., from the bonuses that don't. By using a separate mechanic, they avoid having to do this.

Smart fellas, those designers. Sometimes.

Also, rerolling bad dice is a feel good proposition. Being able to say 'no' to 1s is empowering. So 1d10+2 is fine, but 1d12 brutal 2 gives you that ability to say 'NO!' at your bad rolls for extra feel-good moments.

Sometimes, math isn't the only consideration at a table.

 

[Nikosandros]

Also, rerolling bad dice is a feel good proposition. Being able to say 'no' to 1s is empowering. So 1d10+2 is fine, but 1d12 brutal 2 gives you that ability to say 'NO!' at your bad rolls for extra feel-good moments.

Sometimes, math isn't the only consideration at a table.

Very true. It might make things slightly slower, but it is psychologically much more satisfying to re-roll a 1.