Filling Class/Role combos

[KarinsDad]

I completely agree that that would make me want to throw the book at the designer who made it, it just fills me with a kind of disgust and disappointment, but I don't think it's the ONLY way a Martial Controller could work.

I mean, look what you could do without any mind-control:

Stuns
slams
dazes
trips/entangles
disarms
interrupts
grapples
bull rushes
shoves
dirt-throwing
throwing people/enemies
nerve strikes
expert caltrop throwing
hamstringing

- The class could hit people in fairly normal ways but be utterly expert at stopping them doing stuff. Wizard opens his mouth to cast, catches a rock in it. Rogue sneaks up behind him, he gets sweep-kicked to the floor. Fighter tries to move past him, he gets a shield-bash in the face and is stunned for X rounds. Cleric tries to smash him in the noggin with a two-handed blessed hammer, gets dirt chucked in his eyes and is blinded for a round, and so on.

That's how I envision a Martial Controller, either a sort of martial-arts dude full of tricky moves, or a brawling dirty-fighter (quite possibly armed and armoured), who is more focused on stopping enemy action than doing damage etc.

If it is this, I am totally cool with it.

The Bo9S track record does not indicate this, but we'll see.

Maybe you should go apply for a game designer job over at WotC.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

The Bo9S track record does not indicate this, but we'll see.

You did see the Warblade in there, didn't you?

 

[Jhaelen]

That's how I envision a Martial Controller, either a sort of martial-arts dude full of tricky moves, or a brawling dirty-fighter (quite possibly armed and armoured), who is more focused on stopping enemy action than doing damage etc.

Hmm, what I am missing is the ability to affect multiple opponents at once and applying area-effects (either dealing damage or manipulating the battle-field). I've always assumed that's the defining ability for the 'controller' role.

Stopping a small number of opponents (with or without dealing damage) shouldn't be a problem for defenders/strikers, especially when supported by a leader.

 

[Nahat Anoj]

My idea for a martial controller would be a mastermind, someone who manipulates battlefield conditions through supreme skill and planning for every contingency. A monk would make a good martial controller, although I think it's going to be a hypothetical "ki" controller.

I think warlocks/sorcerers would make good candidates for arcane strikers.

And as far as martial people having "supernatural" powers, well, it's pretty much a given that Epic level powers from the Martial source will be supernaturally over the top. For example, I bet Epic Fighters will likely be able to do strikes that can cleave boulders in twain.

 

[Klaus]

Y'know, for all its lackluster quality, the CW Samurai could be seen as a Martial Controller.

I'd peg the Monk as a Psionic Striker (sharing that role with the Soulknife).

The PHB Barbarian should be a Martial Striker, like the rogue.

The warlock is a good fit for Arcane Striker.

 

[FireLance]

Another possible concept for a martial controller would be someone with a whip or a chain weapon that gives him a lot of reach and the ability to make AOOs which interfere with anyone within his zone of control.

 

[breschau]

This is so tiring. Read the link in my sig. Don't argue, just read it. Everything is there. You can find it all. If you refuse to read the info on that page, please, stop posting about 4th Edition.

You can save yourself, and others, a lot of trouble by simply informing yourself before posting on this board.

To repeat, again:

Martial Defender: Fighter.
Martial Leader: Warlord.
Martial Striker: Rogue.
Martial Controller: Unknown.

Arcane Defender: Swordmage.
Arcane Leader: Bard.
Arcane Striker: Unknown, possibly Sorcerer or Warlock.
Arcane Controller: Wizard.

Divine Defender: Paladin.
Divine Leader: Cleric.
Divine Striker: possibly Ranger (only part in question is the power source, role confirmed).
Divine Controller: Unknown.

The Druid was confirmed as a Leader. Get it? Leader. Go back and watch the Roles video, yeah, the first thing we ever learned about roles was from that video. If you watched it, you should know better. The Druid was specifically confirmed as a Leader.

Two (Druid, Ranger) might be divine, or the could be Nature power source. We don't know.

 

[F4NBOY]

This is so tiring. Read the link in my sig. Don't argue, just read it. Everything is there. You can find it all. If you refuse to read the info on that page, please, stop posting about 4th Edition.

You can save yourself, and others, a lot of trouble by simply informing yourself before posting on this board.

To repeat, again:

Martial Defender: Fighter.
Martial Leader: Warlord.
Martial Striker: Rogue.
Martial Controller: Unknown.

Arcane Defender: Swordmage.
Arcane Leader: Bard.
Arcane Striker: Unknown, possibly Sorcerer or Warlock.
Arcane Controller: Wizard.

Divine Defender: Paladin.
Divine Leader: Cleric.
Divine Striker: possibly Ranger (only part in question is the power source, role confirmed).
Divine Controller: Unknown.

The Druid was confirmed as a Leader. Get it? Leader. Go back and watch the Roles video, yeah, the first thing we ever learned about roles was from that video. If you watched it, you should know better. The Druid was specifically confirmed as a Leader.

Two (Druid, Ranger) might be divine, or the could be Nature power source. We don't know.

But I think the druid is the controller.

 

[Felon]

The Druid was confirmed as a Leader. Get it? Leader. Go back and watch the Roles video, yeah, the first thing we ever learned about roles was from that video. If you watched it, you should know better. The Druid was specifically confirmed as a Leader.

If you want to come across as knowledgable and authoritative, here's a tip: less ranting, more detail. What roles video are you referring to? One of the videos from the official GenCon presentation, or the James Wyatt interview with GamerZero? Neither specifically confirmed the druid as a leader.

 

[Olgar Shiverstone]

James Wyatt interview on Character Roles

Rough quotes from the key section (I'm a poor typist):

(Just prior to this, compares 3.5 and how the druid sucks at healing so you need 5 characters if someone wants to play a druid.)

James Wyatt: ... We've narrowed down the functions that each role performs, and designed different classes to fill each role equally.

GamerZero: So, for example, you can have a cleric, which is great, or you can have a druid who is different from the cleric, but can fill that primary role of being the primary healer in the group.

JW: Just as good. Right. And within that role, there is lots of flexibility. For example, two charcters designed to stand in the front line and hold back the monsters, the paladin and the fighter, are going to do that in very different ways. And also, any individual paladin is going to approach his role in different ways; you still have the flexibility to build your character the way you want ... (explains different ways paladin could perform).

GZ: So what are the four roles? Are there four?

JW: There are four.

GZ: So the tank ...

JW: Right, so the fighter and paladin are defenders, who are there to make sure the wizard doesn't get smushed; the cleric, and

GZ: Primary healer ...

JW: I read on EN World or our site this morning that there is a warlord class in the game, so that's the other "leader" ...

GZ: Really? So you go to EN World to find out what's going on in the game, huh?

JW: (Laughs.) Somebody, uh, was going through the videos of the presentation and pausing, looking at individual frames, and there was something in the character generator that showed the warlord, so there it is.

GZ: Excellent.

JW: So the wizard is what we are calling a controller. There are many ways to control the battlefield. One of them is to drop a fireball over there ...

GZ: So the wizard is a little more crowd control ...

JW: Right. And the rogue, or the ranger, are what we're calling strikers. Their job is to focus in on a target, and put as much damage in on that guy as possible, while moving around a lot more on the battlefield than the fighter or paladin are doing.

GZ: So their focus is kinda targets of opportunity and then really unleashing tremendous amounts of damage per second on the ...

JW: Sneak attack is the perfect example of how the rogue does that now.

GZ: Right, OK. And so all the classes in the game will fit into one of those four roles?

JW: Yes. We're experimenting with concepts that might bend that a little bit, but yeah. The thing is also that those roles really define what you do in combat. Outside of combat different classes are going to be ...

GZ: That's how you play the game, everybody's different, right? I mean, you know ...

JW: (Agreement). The ranger and the rogue are both doing the same thing in combat, but outside of combat they've got different focuses and different abilities.

GZ: Right. And maybe not even doing the same thing but sort of filling that same role. Somebody to put out that damage when you need it on the target.

JW: Exactly, yes. ...

(They go on to talk about Saga Edition, Bo9S being "sort of" earlier drafts of what we may eventually see.)

So he didn't explicitly say the druid was any particular role ... only that the cleric and warlord are both "leaders" (and the language he used strongly implies there are only two classes in the leader role). GZ implied that the druid and cleric could both perform the healing role, but that neither confirms nor denies the druid as a leader role character.

Personally, I think the druid is best adapted as a controller, but that's my interpretation.