Filling Class/Role combos

[derSchmetterling]

If you can't follow "leaders are healers," "clerics are leaders," and "the druid is just as good of a healer as the cleric," resulting in druids being leaders, that's your issue.

What does that make Warlords? I thought they were leaders, too, and unless I've missed something (which is entirely possible), they aren't healers.

 

[F4NBOY]

This is so tiring. Read the link in my sig. Don't argue, just read it.

If you refuse to read the info on that page, please, stop posting about 4th Edition.

Get it? Leader. Go back and watch the Roles video

And yep, this is tiring, because if people would take the time to read the info that's out there...

Maybe people just don't have all the spare time you seem to have to read every single word spoken about 4E.
IF you are so tired go take a nap, or just don't read posts you believe are wrong or are irrelevant. If you keep readin threads and posts you consider to be a waste of time, than don't blame others for being tired.
And being wrong or equivocated is not bad, but being rude and pushing people around is.

 

[breschau]

What does that make Warlords? I thought they were leaders, too, and unless I've missed something (which is entirely possible), they aren't healers.

Yes, Warlords are confirmed as leaders. Their special effects are likely battlefield medic rather than spells. But we haven't seen any specifics as to what the Warlord can do. But, as a Leader, it would seem they're healers too.

Maybe people just don't have all the spare time you seem to have to read every single word spoken about 4E.
IF you are so tired go take a nap, or just don't read posts you believe are wrong or are irrelevant. If you keep readin threads and posts you consider to be a waste of time, than don't blame others for being tired.
And being wrong or equivocated is not bad, but being rude and pushing people around is.

I do not believe it's rude to ask that people be informed about the topic they are discussing.

More accurately, I think it's the height of rudeness to be ill-informed and still posting about a topic. Try reading the FAQs page over at WotC or the Info page here on EN, instead of posting about things already officially covered and well documented with links. It's all readily available, you just have to take 5 minutes and read it.

If you have 5 minutes to read this thread and repeatedly post your opinion about my rudeness, why can't you be bothered to read the official information about the very topic originally posted?

To avoid further drift, let's get back to the topic.

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I for one am hoping for a Nature power source in an up-coming PH. If for no other reason than to see the Barbarian, Druid, and Ranger with real nature based magic/spells.

Nature-
Defender: Barbarian.
Leader: Druid.
Striker: Ranger.
Controller: ?

Maybe they'll split the spells from the wildshape and use the spell selection for the controller, and the wildshape for the leader version. Just a guess.

 

[F4NBOY]

can't you be bothered to read the official information

There is no official info about the role of the druid, only speculation.
So speculating the druid is not a leader is not being ill-informed.

I think it was rude. You simple abruptly entered the thread saying that if we are not able to read every single word about 4E relesead and don't have the same conclusions you do, we should stop posting because we were being annoying. Why feeling so outraged about all that?

 

[Gloombunny]

breschau, you're reading too much into too little solid information. They have not said "druids will be leaders", so stop acting like they have. Wyatt said something in response to a question that could certainly be interpreted to mean that druids will be as good at healing as clerics, but it wasn't a clear unambiguous statement that druids will be as good at healing as clerics. And while healing is definitely a leader-role thing to do, that doesn't mean that druids will be leaders. We already know that warlords are leaders and it seems fairly obvious that they aren't going to have all that much in the way of healing. But that's okay, because the leader role is not simply a healer role. If it were, they'd call it "healer". Perhaps they're going to make healing a much less important part of the game overall, thus allowing a party to get by having a warlord as its closest thing to a healer. In which case a druid could have strong healing abilities and still not be a leader, because it lacks the buffing and support abilities that truly define the role.

Or, maybe your interpretations will turn out to be correct and the druid will fill exactly the same role as a cleric. Either way, there really is not enough information yet to know.

 

[breschau]

I consider the Roles video interview between Gamer_Zero and James Wyatt as official information. If you don't consider it official, stop claiming there are four roles, and that their names are defender, leader, striker, and controller, as that video is the only source that confirms all four, names them, and details what they do.

Since that video interview is official 4th Edition info, whatever is said therein, is also official 4th Edition info...

James Wyatt: ... We've narrowed down the functions that each role performs, and designed different classes to fill each role equally.

GamerZero: So, for example, you can have a cleric, which is great, or you can have a druid who is different from the cleric, but can fill that primary role of being the primary healer in the group.

JW: Just as good. Right.

Look at that, according to James Wyatt, in the video interview, druids will be "just as good" at healing as clerics. Check. Official info. Thanks James. Unless James Wyatt isn't a good enough source for you.

Unlike their 3e counterparts, every Leader class in the new edition is designed to provide their ally-benefits and healing powers without having to use so many of their own actions in the group-caretaker mode.

So, the best healers in the game, those with healing abilities prominently built into their class, by design, are the leaders. And that's according to the lead designer of 4th Edition. Hopefully that's a good enough source for you. (Paladins are not officially stated to be "just as good" at healing as the cleric so keep that one to yourself.)

Unless they spent all that time designing the roles, just to abandon them for the druid, the only way another class could be "just as good" at healing as a cleric is to be another leader class.

 

[Scholar & Brutalman]

While the Mire and the making enemies attack each other are definitely controller abilities, the part about doing extra damage to wounded targets sounds very striker-ish to me. So it's hard to say. I think we can safely assume that classes will have abilities not directly related to their official role - they're not going to make the warlord and cleric useless in melee just because they're not defenders or strikers, for instance - so we don't really know yet if that was an example of a striker using a control ability, or a controller using a striking ability.

Fair enough, but I'm still inclined towards the controller theory (because it's my theory that is mine and belongs to me!) While i was looking around for more evidence to support my theory I noticed that there seems to be quite a lot of warlock material mentioned by WotC.

The Castle Smoulderthorn playtests never say there's any trouble converting a warlock, while they do with other classes. Warlock's powers are mentioned by name - the Mire of Minauros in the playtest report, plus a line in Dave Noonan's blog where he says "Warlock + iron crown of madness = fun for the whole family." And oddly, there were drawings of 5 classes in the USB sticks handed out at Gencon: Fighter&Rogue, Cleric x2, Wizard and Warlock. They've certainly shown more of the Warlock than they have of the Druid or Barbarian, though part of this is obviously the playtest chosen.

It looks to me like the warlock is one of the first PHB classes. Of course, this is all just Kremlinology, so if it turns out I'm wrong, I reserve the right to deny that I ever said this...

 

[derSchmetterling]

Yes, Warlords are confirmed as leaders. Their special effects are likely battlefield medic rather than spells. But we haven't seen any specifics as to what the Warlord can do. But, as a Leader, it would seem they're healers too.

We have seen a Warlord in one of the playtest reports, and she didn't display any healing ability. Still, there wasn't much there, so it's entirely possible that you're right.

Look at that, according to James Wyatt, in the video interview, druids will be "just as good" at healing as clerics. Check. Official info. Thanks James. Unless James Wyatt isn't a good enough source for you.

Maybe they have to be actively healing, unlike a Cleric, to equal the Cleric's healing ability. The point is, based on the scant information we have so far, maybe Druid's are leaders and maybe they aren't.

In any event, if healing is the prime characteristic that defines the leader role, leader is a terrible name for the role.

 

[see]

It is perfectly possible, for example, that a 4e druid's powers largely track those of the wizard, with direct equivalents to the "orb", "staff", and "tome", but ally mass healing replacing the "wand". The result would still be basically a controller, but one who lengthens the encounter clock of his allies with healing instead of shortening the encounter clock of his enemies with mass damage spells.

Assuming an off-the-cuff response to someone else's 3e-based analogy was actually supposed to be a confirmation that druids are full-fledged healers, instead of a slightly stumbling attempt to agree that all classes assigned to the same role in 4e would be "just as good" as each other.

 

[Khaalis]

Just as a side note, remember that Richard Baker just confirmed (Link) that we shouldn't be attempting to fill in the "grid" since the PHB isn't using the grid as the actual source for classes. We will not have one class of each role and source combination.

Some of you have already observed that the "grid" created by lining up power sources on one axis and character role on another axis is a natural first place to look for class ideas. We don't intend to meticulously fill in each possible combination, or even limit ourselves to one class per cubbyhole, but it's an interesting place to start.