Final Fantasy Zero: Design Diary continued

[Cynlas]

SAVE THE DESSERT FOR LAST!

Ahh... but as a wise sage named Dave used to say:

Life is Uncertain; eat Dessert first!

So, where then does the RDM and DRG/LCR fit in this scheme of yours?

 

[I'm A Banana]

Hmm... difficult to say, really. Spells in IV could be split to affect a group no matter what tier. -aja is above -aga in terms of power. Beyond that, there's really no difference.

It could be comparable to Fire 4 and such from Tactics, I imagine.

Oh-ho! Good to know...I'll see what I can do about messin' with that high tier of spells.

I am rather intrigued by this concept...

One of the (IMHO) awesome things about callers is that they will learn a small, customized spell list based on what orisha they can summon. Those who summon ifrit and shiva will learn fire and ice spells, those who summon Boko will learn speed and air spells, those who summon Anima will learn some dark and water magic, etc. This will slightly reflect the mechanic from FF6 where the summon taught you magic, and help give those who love the materia system something of a fix. A caller can summon about 15 total orisha, so he'll have about 15 themed lists of spells he can use.

I don't disagree with overlap in spell lists. Though I imagine that the base list of blue spells should be relatively distinct from the other lists... white wind and mighty guard are almost solely within the realm of blue magic, and I wouldn't want to see them in the other colors.

Right, each magic will be MOSTLY distinct from the other (with the obvious exception of Red). Aero just happens to be one of those situations where they overlap.

I wouldn't call it non-essential, it's almost as quintessential in FFs as the black mage, at this point. But I'll look for it when you start working on the monsters.

Hehehe, "non-essential" in terms of a balanced party. Now that I have the base system pretty well complete, I want to be sure to add the typical four classes (tank, healer, blaster, and scout), monsters, awards, all the things that make a game playable.

There's no denying that the blue mage is pretty key for some distinct FF flava.

 

[GnomeWorks]

Hmm... and speaking of mighty guard, I'm curious as to how you're handling technology.

I noticed (or, I think I noticed) that you listed an Engineer class. I'm curious as to how you're going to handle technology, as the only FF to have actual technology was VI, and Edgar's tools were rather limited in scope. The other FF to come close was X, with the Mix and Use abilities, but again, those were rather limited in scope.

The Returners have a rather interesting system, but I am uncertain of how well it would port to d20.

Have you put any thought into this yet?

 

[GnomeWorks]

Oh-ho! Good to know...I'll see what I can do about messin' with that high tier of spells.

If you're interested in other tid-bits of FF lore, I'd be willing to help out. I've played every FF in existence (even the XII demo - I look forward to that one ), and am only three away from finishing all of them.

Of course, since you're undertaking this project, I imagine your track record with the series is probably comparable.

One of the (IMHO) awesome things about callers is that they will learn a small, customized spell list based on what orisha they can summon. Those who summon ifrit and shiva will learn fire and ice spells, those who summon Boko will learn speed and air spells, those who summon Anima will learn some dark and water magic, etc. This will slightly reflect the mechanic from FF6 where the summon taught you magic, and help give those who love the materia system something of a fix. A caller can summon about 15 total orisha, so he'll have about 15 themed lists of spells he can use.

That sounds pretty good.

Right, each magic will be MOSTLY distinct from the other (with the obvious exception of Red). Aero just happens to be one of those situations where they overlap.

Fair enough. Just glad to see that Aero is in the blue mage's possible repertoire.

Hehehe, "non-essential" in terms of a balanced party. Now that I have the base system pretty well complete, I want to be sure to add the typical four classes (tank, healer, blaster, and scout), monsters, awards, all the things that make a game playable.

There's no denying that the blue mage is pretty key for some distinct FF flava.

Hmm, fair enough. In that sense, then I'd agree that the blue mage can be considered not essential.

 

[Cynlas]

I wouldn't call it non-essential, it's almost as quintessential in FFs as the black mage, at this point.

I don't know. Like the Dragoon, the blue mage is certainly one of the distinctive (if you can't really say "unique" anymore) FF jobs, but it does not occur with a frequency to say it is really "essential". Obviously, though, it is these classes that help maintain a level of continuity/flavor that scream to the players "This is FF!", so I am very glad KM is including them. As to the blue mage, I am more interested in it as a GM than as a player, though I think I do have one player at my current table that would jump on the blue mage in less than a heartbeat were it available

 

[Kavon]

Hey there, KM

Your work looks excellent so for, so keep up the good work

Just had a few questions/comments that popped into my head while looking through your documents.

I was under the impression while playing FFX, that the Ronso people were pretty much *soaked* (maybe a bit exaggerated there ) in Blue Magic - The party Blue Mage was a ronso, those two ronso's that Kimahri has to fight to reclaim his honor (or whatever, lol) had several blue magic spells that you could Lancet off of them, etc...
So, I was rather surprised to find no mention at all of Blue Magic in your Ronso Tribe description (other than some vague spiritual things, which can mean anything).
Was this a conscious decision? If so, what was the reason to divert them from Blue Magic?


Second thing.. What would Nanaki/RedXIII and Seto (FFVII) be in your system? They're some of the coolest beings in FFVII, I'd say (and just as rare as the cetra, for that matter).

Hmm.. Now that I'm writing this, I reminded myself of some other beings. What about those two sort of beings from FFVIII? Can't really remember the names of them, but I'm talking about those red little beings that like Laguna (and lick blood, was it? hmm), and those artisan people that live in that town underneath the ground.

Just curious how those those three would be handle, and such, as I was seeing more FFX/FFXI/FFTA/maybe FFCC? (haven't played that one) stuff than anything else - bit off balanced in that regard.

Anyway, looking forward to seeing some more stuff! :B

 

[I'm A Banana]

I noticed (or, I think I noticed) that you listed an Engineer class. I'm curious as to how you're going to handle technology, as the only FF to have actual technology was VI, and Edgar's tools were rather limited in scope. The other FF to come close was X, with the Mix and Use abilities, but again, those were rather limited in scope.

In the "implied setting," I'm trying to take an Eberron-style "A place for everything" kind of philosophy. Thus, there are areas (like where the lufenish live, in the big cities, where the moogles tinker, where the genomes are made) where technology is at a near-sci-fi level, something out of VII or VIII or even, by the looks of the trailer, XIII. To have FF without hints of technology is nearly an anathema to the series....IV had robots and space ships, even the first one had space-time warps. Blending a bit of steampunk/techpunk with the fantasy has been pretty essential to a lot of the series.

That said, there are less civilized areas, areas more reminiscent of the more medieval flavor or even "isolated continent" flavor of some of the games. Technology is part and parcel of the setting, but it doesn't need to be in your face all the time, it can work subtly behind the scenes...you don't need cell phones like VII, but you probably have indoor plumbing and something like electricity.

The Returners have a rather interesting system, but I am uncertain of how well it would port to d20.

It's a pretty cool system, but it's not used in the most beneficial of ways, and the 'culture' over at Returners hurts them much more than the system does. I'm referencing them for many ideas, and they're a great first run, but I'm trying to steer away from it to ensure FFZ is it's own monster. And it is. It has it's own quirks and gaps and holes, which, I hope, will be less crippling than the ones the FFRPG has.

If you're interested in other tid-bits of FF lore, I'd be willing to help out. I've played every FF in existence (even the XII demo - I look forward to that one ), and am only three away from finishing all of them.

Of course, since you're undertaking this project, I imagine your track record with the series is probably comparable.

I've done my homework, but some of the more recent ones or re-makes I have some trouble getting my facts straight on. I didn't know there was a XIII or a III US release in the works already 'till just yesterday, for instance.

I do appreciate someone to help me get 'em straight when I drop the gap.

I don't know. Like the Dragoon, the blue mage is certainly one of the distinctive (if you can't really say "unique" anymore) FF jobs, but it does not occur with a frequency to say it is really "essential". Obviously, though, it is these classes that help maintain a level of continuity/flavor that scream to the players "This is FF!", so I am very glad KM is including them. As to the blue mage, I am more interested in it as a GM than as a player, though I think I do have one player at my current table that would jump on the blue mage in less than a heartbeat were it available

Right, it's a very iconic FF class, like the caller, the dragoon, the two-weapon-wielding ninja...

I was under the impression while playing FFX, that the Ronso people were pretty much *soaked* (maybe a bit exaggerated there ) in Blue Magic - The party Blue Mage was a ronso, those two ronso's that Kimahri has to fight to reclaim his honor (or whatever, lol) had several blue magic spells that you could Lancet off of them, etc...
So, I was rather surprised to find no mention at all of Blue Magic in your Ronso Tribe description (other than some vague spiritual things, which can mean anything).
Was this a conscious decision? If so, what was the reason to divert them from Blue Magic?

Not concious. Mostly I just saw no real plot reason why the ronso had so much blue magic, so I didn't bother creating one. I think it has to do with their bestial, near-monstrous nature in FFX and X-2. Kimahri is tough to center a tribe's mechanics around because he was such a flexible character that really had only a few unique powers to himself (in his section of the sphere grid).

Still, you raise a good point, and it probably bears mentioning a bit more. Expect the tribal adjustments section for the blue mage to have some nice words about it.

Second thing.. What would Nanaki/RedXIII and Seto (FFVII) be in your system? They're some of the coolest beings in FFVII, I'd say (and just as rare as the cetra, for that matter).

Hmm.. Now that I'm writing this, I reminded myself of some other beings. What about those two sort of beings from FFVIII? Can't really remember the names of them, but I'm talking about those red little beings that like Laguna (and lick blood, was it? hmm), and those artisan people that live in that town underneath the ground.

Just curious how those those three would be handle, and such, as I was seeing more FFX/FFXI/FFTA/maybe FFCC? (haven't played that one) stuff than anything else - bit off balanced in that regard.

Narrowing down the list of tribes was hard, and ultimately was partially arbitrary. I tried to focus on what characters could be, rather than NPC's (I dropped the Hypello tribe that I was really looking forward to!) which kind of forces me to focus more on the latter FF's, with their distinct tribes, and which meant none of those critters from VIII. As for VII's critters, that was part of my reason to make the tribe mechanics so abstract -- so things like quadrupedal races and robot-cats-riding-stuffed-moogle races and potentially-undead-mutant races could be played right alongside each other without forcing you to re-think the whole system.

Though I didn't include Nanaki's tribe, they're definately one of those I'd like to see done, and one that definately wouldn't be too hard to do. Show me what you've got!

 

[Exen Trik]

The "Steal X" line of abilties are going to be granted thief abilities that will mostly work off of an Agility check. The "Fingers" skill allows anyone to grab a few coins or hide a dagger. The Steal abilities are basically walking up to a target in combat and just grabbing what you want. Steal GP, Steal Heart, Steal Weapon, Steal Clothes, Steal Abilities....lots of cool potential.

So, where does slight of hand fit into all of this, if at all? Or bluff, for that matter?

 

[I'm A Banana]

So, where does slight of hand fit into all of this, if at all? Or bluff, for that matter?

As of the plans right now, they don't.

All the uses of "Slieght of Hand" are intact, which means you can still grab an item off of a person with a DC 20 check, which they can notice with an opposed Perception check. However, the Steal abilities don't try to hide what they're doing -- the target knows they've been stolen from, and usually what was stolen the moment you do it.

In addition, job abilities that are based off of skills suffer the problem, in FFZ, of being useless (or near-useless) to those jobs who don't get the skill. Because you can take Thief as a sub-job to gain the Steal abilities, but you don't usually get the Sleight of Hand skill with that, it makes the job rather useless as a sub-job unless you already have something similar. Basing it off of Agility means that it's based off of something everyone gets at least a little of.

Of course, since sub-jobs and the Thief are still being developed, this could change, As of now, I'm steering away from basing job abilities on skills very much.

 

[GnomeWorks]

In the "implied setting," I'm trying to take an Eberron-style "A place for everything" kind of philosophy. Thus, there are areas (like where the lufenish live, in the big cities, where the moogles tinker, where the genomes are made) where technology is at a near-sci-fi level, something out of VII or VIII or even, by the looks of the trailer, XIII. To have FF without hints of technology is nearly an anathema to the series....IV had robots and space ships, even the first one had space-time warps. Blending a bit of steampunk/techpunk with the fantasy has been pretty essential to a lot of the series.

All well and good, but I was trying to get more of a feel for technology from a mechanics standpoint rather than a fluff standpoint.

As I mentioned, you have an engineer class, which almost guarantees that you have some sort of class abilities for them. I'm curious where you went with that, if you've gone there or even thought about it yet.