Finalized Hybrid Rules - What's new?

[On Puget Sound]

I'm playing a genasi warlord/ swordmage. It's not overpowered, but our group really needs the versatility. Our other defender player has an unpredictable work schedule and can't always be there on game night, so I never know when I'll be called upon to be the tank. We have no other leader classes at all, so I am it for healing too (I've taken a skill-based utility power for a second heal, and fearless rescue as my daily).

This is the kind of situation I think hybrids were designed for, not as a tool kit for optimizers. (Not that there's anything wrong with optimizers...I have waiting in the wings a ranger/rogue whose only standard-action attacks are at-wills; every encounter and daily is minor or immediate).

 

[Danceofmasks]

Well, I have a Paladin | Sorcerer / Rogue / Daggermaster of doom.
OF DOOM.
Ok, it's no DPR king, but it's a real gish. From level 1.
Stabs good, blams good, tanks good.

It is a drow, 'cos cloud of darkness is my favourite power of all time, yeah.

1: 20 cha 16 dex 11 con, HT for armour.
20 cha = decent with teh longsword.
20/16 = fun with blazing starfall.
Took virtuous strike 'cos it's an MBA, and blazing starfall will usually be the at-will of choice.
I went with valorous smite for teh funky multi-sanction (see lv 3).
Daily is almost irrelevant, but I went with Howling Tempest. Stylish.

Aim to pick up either some boring magic plate or boring magic dagger.
Yes, dagger. 'cos it does everything - so your other magic gear can help in defense.

2: Focused Expertise - Dagger, 'cos it's cheesy.
Bless Weapon. It's like dude. Retrain to Dragonflame Mantle at level 6.

3:
Flame Spiral. Valorous smite first, they'll come running. Flame spiral attacks up to 3 of 'em (no friendly fire), and automatically burns adjacent foes with another damage roll. Damage roll bonuses FTW.

4: Nimble Blade. Yes, really. More hitroll. Remember you get 2 rounds of free CA due to Cloud of Darkness. Fun with other powers noted above.

5:
Hallowed Circle. Just divine challenge and blam foes from here for funnies.

6: Weapon Focus - Dagger. (Retrain lv 2 power to Dragonflame Mantle)
Wrath of the Gods. If you anticipate trouble, precast on whole party.

7:
Price of Cowardice. If they don't fear your weak DC, zap 'em hard (also, interrupt so it doesn't break your standard actions' rhythm). Particularly funny if you move in, drop a cloud of darkness, then use a valorous smite.

8: Sneak of Shadows. Just 'cos sneak attacking with spells is fun.

9:
Prime the Fire. 'cos by this point, any power that potentially inflicts 2x arcane damage rolls with an area burst is the go. Oh, btw, should be on the lookout for a subtle dagger right about now. Free CA = more damage on every damage roll. Frost is an alternative if you're going with the really cheap lasting frost stuff.

10: (will be retrained next level) Toughness?
Fog Form. Sometimes an invitation to get stacked on requires damage reduction. I'd consider re-swapping the level 2 utility back to Bless Weapon at this point.

11: Surprise, it's a daggermaster. Shield Specialization and Merciless Killer.
Ok, sure, you've got -2 hit/dam with critical opportunity, but whoops ... it's only a minor action.

12+ You get the picture. The character does it all. Even opens locks ... hey, summoned armour isn't more expensive than just enhancement, so you can bamf it away for that. Stealth is nice, too ... if a background was taken that gives access.

Edit:
Daggermaster can be overpowered, I guess ... so there's an alternative.
Drop all the rogue stuff, and be a champion of corellon.
Could also have a little story about a drow mage getting converted ..
Maybe even pick up some of Caelynnvala's Boons in a group of elves, eladrin, and drow.
Either way, 'mage with billions of AC' is the concept.

 

[Jhaelen]

What a total strawman.

There are actually very few hybrids on that list at Heroic and Paragon levels where they are actually competitive. It's only in Epic where they finally get enough feats and can use the same old cold cheese where they actually work.

There are something like 153 possible hybrid build combinations of class. 3 or 4 of them on that list. Woo hoo. And many of the DPR builds are very unbalanced (i.e. have sucky defenses, etc.). That's like 2% or 3% of the combination possibilities.

So if 2% or 3% of the list of hybrids illustrates the balance implications of the entire list for you, especially at heroic and paragon level where the majority of the game is played, then we cannot rationally discuss this.

Umm, ditto?

I don't see you proving that any of remaining 150 hybrid build combinations are gimped.

 

[Akaiku]

11: Surprise, it's a daggermaster. Shield Specialization and Merciless Killer.
Ok, sure, you've got -2 hit/dam with critical opportunity, but whoops ... it's only a minor action.

Where are you getting shield prof in the first place?

Also, no leather armor? What is your ac in cloth there? Vaguly defendery or is that not the point? Umm.. how much palidan stuff do you actually have in that build?

 

[KarinsDad]

I don't see you proving that any of remaining 150 hybrid build combinations are gimped.

Working on it. Be patient.

 

[Danceofmasks]

Where are you getting shield prof in the first place?

Also, no leather armor? What is your ac in cloth there? Vaguly defendery or is that not the point? Umm.. how much palidan stuff do you actually have in that build?

Level 1: Hybrid Talent - Paladin Armor Proficiencies

Full plate & heavy shield at level 1.

Read the whole thing, please.
That build has a DC that burns for 5, which is equivalent to a str paladin.
It can, on a hit admittedly, at level 1, divine sanction every enemy within 3 .. which
(1) a mark/debuff.
(2) burns for 8 if defied.
(3) lose/lose if you're within a cloud of darkness.
(4) you have 20 AC at level 1
(5) and at level 3, if say 3 dudes decide to melee you anyway, flame spiral does an average of 27 damage to all of 'em.

It's a defender that punishes defiance of marks hard.
It also punishes acknowledged marks hard.

It's a lot better than vaguely defenderish.

 

[Zaran]

I can understand limiting a hybrids combat abilities. But why did they take away a wizard's spellbook (or at least the free ritual casting feat)? Why is the hybrid ranger 's beast weaker when they still depend on less Beast powers than a normal ranger. As someone else said. You are losing about 2 class features from each parent class to keep 1 reduced version from each. I think the hybrid talent should be a feature as well.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

Looks like a nice build there DoM. Definitely taking the Paladin potentiality for damned if you do and damned if you don't marking to its full potential.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

I can understand limiting a hybrids combat abilities. But why did they take away a wizard's spellbook (or at least the free ritual casting feat)? Why is the hybrid ranger 's beast weaker when they still depend on less Beast powers than a normal ranger. As someone else said. You are losing about 2 class features from each parent class to keep 1 reduced version from each. I think the hybrid talent should be a feature as well.

The reason is really pretty readily apparent. With nicely synergistic classes you can make a very potent hybrid. Giving those characters added benefits for free will make them OP. At best they would be better choices in all respects than similar single classed characters. Hybrid is not supposed to overshadow single classes.

 

[Danceofmasks]

Well, there are some silly side effects ...

For instance, you could hybrid ranger or fighter with any arcane class ... and go pure strength.
Why?

Take armour proficiency feats for defense.
Some combinations are easier to do, such as HT: Tempest with Fighter | Bard ('cos you already get chainmail), or Ranger | Swordmage.

Level 2 weapon Mage's Weapon ...
1) It's not much more expensive than level 1
2) It's free proficiency. So say hi to Parrying Dagger, or Double Sword, or Bastard Sword.
3) Encounter power of downgrading arcane power to martial power.

So ... level 13 Fighter | Bard with a few Mage's Weapons (use/drop/draw, recover after combat), turning all those arcane encounter powers into Rain of Blows.
Throw in a few Power Jewels, and you can literally Rain of Blows all day.
Add Kensei or Pit Fighter for stupid damage bonuses.

Or the Ranger doing the same thing with Disruptive Strike.
"Attack other people and I'll aegis you, attack me and I'll stab you in the face. Oh, btw, twin strike. I also happen to be a stormwarden with scimitar dance."

Hybrids aren't for "regular" players ... it's for hilarious little combos like that.